The Perilous Sin of Affirming Sin

The number of professing Christians who reject the biblical sexual ethic (as it is traditionally understood) has been climbing steadily over the last few years. Many who once submitted to the Bible’s clear condemnation of homosexual behavior now propose that theologians have long been off base in their interpretation of the texts addressing this issue. They don’t believe the Scriptures speak ill of loving, monogamous same-sex relationships, but only homosexual activity in the context of rape, child molestation, and idol worship.

When I became a believer in 2010, all of the self-identified Christians in my life were overjoyed to hear I was no longer partaking in what they themselves described as the sin of homosexuality. They unequivocally supported my unexpected decision to live in obedience to Christ. However, the vast majority of these faith-professing people are singing an entirely different tune today. Though they initially patted me on the back as I embarked on this difficult yet unthinkably satisfying journey, they now believe my repentance is self-destructive—and that my “message” (the gospel) is a poison to other same-sex attracted people.

“I admire you for the strength you exert every day in suppressing this part of yourself,” some kindly say, “but you don’t have to live like this. God wants you to be happy with a person you find desirable. He will still love and bless you if you find a man to spend the rest of your life with.” And then there are other professing Christians who take a not-as-nice approach and run around town telling people (who later tell me) that I am deceiving myself, misrepresenting Jesus, and negatively influencing others with my antiquated beliefs.

I understand this is part of the gospel package. Following Jesus with this thorn lodged in my side is always going to earn me some sideways looks. The way my repentance fleshes out is weird and counter-cultural. But it’s not counter-Christian—and this is where I struggle. How am I supposed to respond to faith-professing people who have deviated from the clear teaching of Scripture? Is this a matter we shouldn’t split hairs over, or is it alarmingly serious? Can I—should I—continue to enjoy fellowship with them and view them as my brothers and sisters in Christ?

Paul minced no words when instructing the Corinthians in how to respond to professing Christians who personally indulge in sexual immorality (and a whole slew of other sins) and refuse to repent:

“ . . . I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.” – 1 Corinthians 5:11

Though the postmodern masses may describe the above response as unloving and intolerant, it is a good, right, and faithful response that preserves the purity of the Church and demonstrates to the deviant person the gravity of his or her unrepentant error. The hope and aim is that this person, by means of detachment from the fellowship of believers, will be shaken out of his sinful stupor and enter repentantly back into the fellowship (2 Corinthians 2:6-8).

But what about the person who calls himself a Christian and doesn’t personally participate in sexual immorality, but he encourages others to do so? Is this a lesser offense that merits a less severe response?

I’ve been asking myself this question for some time, and, after seeking the Lord’s wisdom in the Scriptures, I have arrived at the conclusion that I cannot extend the hand of fellowship to a gay-affirming person—nor can I affirm his or her salvation.

Paul spends the last half of Romans 1 describing the vile state of man in his unregenerate condition. After addressing the sin of homosexual behavior at length and then listing about two-dozen other sins that characterize the unbelieving life, he summarizes the chapter with the following verse:

“Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” – Romans 1:32 (emphasis mine)

Paul considers “giving approval” to those who indulge in homosexual sin a grave enough matter that he included it in one of the most damning passages in the entire Bible. This is obviously not one of those non-essential issues around which there is room for differing perspectives. Encouraging other people to embrace a way of life that God defines as abominable seems to be a “make it or break it” kind of thing.

Though it is difficult to do so, we must realize there is a terrifying possibility that our “Christian” friends and family members who heartily approve of same-sex relationships may possess a darkened, unrighteous, truth-suppressing heart (Romans 1:18-23). Though these people insist that they know Jesus, and though their lives are decorated with Christian-looking deeds and activities, it is possible that Jesus does not know them (Matthew 7:21-23).

If we really care about these people, we cannot chalk this up to a simple difference of opinion and continue engaging with them as if all is well with their souls. We must tell them, in love and with tears, that their willingness to condone what God despises is symptomatic of an evil, unbelieving heart that has the potential to lead them away from the living God (Hebrews 3:12). We must plead with them to forsake this path of destruction and come sprinting back to the “faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3).

“My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.” – James 5:19-20

  • Lyle Nelson

    Ephesians 4:15 tells us to always “speak the truth in love”. I think that very simple command tells us what is the right (and the wrong) thing to do here. Truth here means Biblical truth, not “whatever seems right, based on how I feel, and what I think God must think” truth. More and more often, those two are miles apart.

    “In love” requires us NOT to have a “holier than thou” attitude, and a deep, heartfelt realization that we are just as sinful as the person we are talking to. We must not give a pass to our sin, while condemning theirs. That is being a hypocrite, and absolutely does nothing but alienate the other person, likely making things worse than they already were. That absolutely is not love. Without what Christ accomplished at the cross, we would be every bit as lost as they are.

    And, as with pastors, I believe there are extra responsibilities and a higher standard for anyone who is in a preaching/teaching/author type of position, and thus has much greater opportunity to influence others. In our current world, the responsibilities that were once limited to those in a pastoral role are more often borne by people in these other roles, such as those in online media or authors, and so it would seem that they ought to also bear the accompanying higher standards.

    • Regan DuCasse

      Why is it that “whatever seems right based on how I feel…” is used as such a tool against those who challenge your line of thinking?
      That’s a dismissive and disrespectful way of assuming some people didn’t get to their conclusions by a considerable amount of work, courage and not just feelings…but empirical experience?
      Our current world has given us a huge range of options for experience, exchange and education.
      That the Bible actual limits.
      Higher standards? I’m witnessing double standards, for gay people in the real world.
      And whatever claims of the truth, Bible believers keep going on about, there isn’t a lot they can say has done the same social good for gay people, or women, that it has for others.

      • Lyle Nelson

        I am basing my line of thinking on what God says in the Bible. No amount of work, courage and empirical evidence changes that. No matter how many options for experience, exchange and education we have, God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and His Word remains what it is. By higher standards, I simply meant that those who are in a position to influence a larger number of people with their views, because of the power of online media etc., are held to higher standards of behavior. Again, that is Biblical. Admittedly the church has not always done a good job of treating gays, women and other marginalized groups well. That is because of not always acting “in love” as they should. As I said, those in the Church must admit their own sin as well, and this is definitely a part of it.

        • Regan DuCasse

          I think Lyle, that the definition of love, and how it’s performed, isn’t consistent in the Bible or among, or from Christians.
          Treat another as you’d be treated, is enough.
          And by extension, if other people have advanced themselves and human life through their work, courage and experience, then a person of faith benefiting from it, should too.
          Lip service is easy, actions will always matter and most people know this too.
          You’re right then, about the power of the media and mass appeal.
          The Bible itself is media.
          Acknowledging past misdeeds on how entire groups of people have been treated historically and socio/politically is fine. That’s very hard to come by too.
          Now it’s ‘what are you going to do about it’ time.
          But applying MORE of the same from which that mistreatment came, isn’t a recipe for effective change for the better.

          • Lyle Nelson

            There are many types of love in the original Biblical languages; unfortunately they all get translated to “love” in English. Saying you love pizza is very different than saying you love your spouse. Likewise someone “advancing yourself” has different meanings to different people, depending on what their objectives and standards are. Absolutely the Bible is media. Unfortunately, in an imperfect world (and that absolutely includes Christians) we can hope for some change for the better, and work towards it, but we will not totally achieve it this side of heaven. Sin will always stymy our efforts.

          • Regan DuCasse

            In the Bible, there was no room for gays to live, to exist or have any opportunity to inform, teach or allow for who they are to be fully known.
            They were ordered to be executed.
            And such things were carried out, next came imprisonment and torture in those prisons.
            So if the Bible were strictly adhered to, Matt and his supporters wouldn’t be around to say anything.
            How does this deserve tempering and changing, but gay people being treated with the full faith and credit of ordinary life that’s accepted routinely, is not?

            This is where the lack of consistency is evident except where convenient.
            Either gay people are to accept being marched off to be killed or disappeared.
            The middle, is that you get to live, but restricted to what Christians decide for you.
            And that might be difficult to ever know what that could be, since Christians aren’t too consistent in a lot of things to do with civil law and so on.
            See my problem here?

          • Sandi Luckins

            Have you never heard of Jesus? He died on a cross and took all of our sin on Him. Christ gives us grace while we are still unrepentant – until the time of our death – that He will not destroy us – hoping that we will eventually choose Him over the sin.
            Hence, Christians keep trying to help homosexuals to see their sin and get rid of it – rather than stoning. There is an experience much worse than stoning awaiting anyone who rejects Christ in this life.

          • Regan DuCasse

            You’re proving just how deaf a Christian will be to another person. I just said, I was raised Christian.
            What is wrong with you?
            Regarding helping homosexuals, rather than stoning…the meantime isn’t much better.
            “There is an experience worse than stoning, awaiting anyone who rejects Christ in this life”.
            And therein, is emotional blackmail, a threat, so to speak.
            Yeah, I’ve heard that too. But the approach to all the other sins and sinners, isn’t the same.
            Gay people are singled out in a way that defies the logic, and rational social integration that’s been happening in recent decades.
            Explain that one.
            Bet you can’t. Or won’t.

          • CCW

            Yes it’s been singled out as a sin and treated differently. But that’s because its been categorized as the “other persons” sin. We all tend to self righteously judge the sins in others that we don’t struggle with but have grace for the sins in others that we do.

            So there are some sins in how the church has responded to the sin of homosexuality. But the church has sinned in this way with dealing with other sins too.

            On the flip side there are also tons of churches and christians who don’t treat it differently and extend compassion and grace while also saying it’s sin. But now this too is being called wrong when its the appropriate biblical response up to even breaking fellowship with someone who remains unrepentant.

            So no the capital punishment isn’t at play with homosexuality any longer in the church just like it isn’t for adultery and incest (also punishable by death under the civil laws of the OT) which Paul dealt with in 1Corinthians where he told the church to put them out of the fellowship for their refusal to repent of those sins.

          • Regan DuCasse

            I know all that.
            That’s not new. It hasn’t been new for a long time. Conflation, of things that are clinically distinct, from morally distinct, is what is frustrating in these conversations.
            I have some close friends whose experience with their families, has been ultimatums.
            As if their gay family member couldn’t live without either them OR God and Christ.
            Estrangement is preferable. Because God and Christ are NOT tangible.
            But whether your parents or siblings ever speak to you again, IS.
            The incentive to not be shunned, is a powerful one. And Christians and other faith communities know it.
            They don’t call it blackmail, they consider it a healthy and necessary way to treat people.
            Which would be one thing, if gay people had harmed another person.
            But they don’t.
            This is truly about vestiges of the inherent misogyny and taboo on non procreative sex in religious doctrine.
            This is what I’m getting at.
            That misogyny itself is extremely unhealthy, as is a prohibition on birth control, or people that have sex without the intent of children.

          • CCW

            The breaking of fellowship is a last resort and only applicable after other avenues have been exhausted. But you say you are familiar with all that so I’ll assume I’m not telling you something you would’t already know.

            However, unpack what you mean by clinically and morally distinct?

            I’m assuming here so disregard what follows if I’m misunderstanding you. But if by clinically and morally distinct you mean orientation or some such thing and, if so, that somehow settles the issue, it does not. Your establishing a separation that is arbitrary.

            The point of sin is that we are fundamentally oriented to things we should not be. We want and desire things we should not. The presence of a want, desire, attraction – sexual or otherwise – does not make them permissible.

            Most of where the church falls short is because of a failure to understand what sin is. This is why, for example, I never say to anyone dealing with sin to “just stop it.” You can’t “just stop it.” We need the grace of God and the Spirit of God to empower that and a loving and compassionate community of brothers and sister who will walk with us.

            And your assertion of religious taboo on non procreative sex ignores the reality that that is not the biblical portrayal. A reading of Song of Songs is enough to counter that assertion. This is not to say that ascetic influences have not marred the theology of the church; but biblical theology is neither ascetic nor opposed to the enjoyment of life.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Excuse me, but what is known, and factual about homosexuality and gay people is NOT arbitrary. It’s not a belief system, nor capricious assumptions.
            It’s the Bible’s teaching on it that’s arbitrary.

            Which, not incidentally is to not LEARN about it at all, but to deny gay people their humanity within it and make them go away.
            So what I said by clinical distinctions, is that homosexuality has been researched, gay people examined and accorded an openness in society that’s been unprecedented. This has garnered more knowledge and empirical experience than the Bible or other faith doctrines ever allowed.
            Making such doctrine wrong.
            There are distinctions of human behaviors by which the status and addressing of it has been more effective.
            You can’t pray away much of it. There are disciplines that do work, if the object of addiction is taken away. The function of the individual improves.
            But there is no discernible difference in a gay person’s function in society one way or the other, by religious disciplines.
            That is one part of the evidence of the moral neutrality of homosexual behavior.
            any other things categorized as sins, or demons, are not EXCLUSIVE.
            That is yet more evidence.
            The part of Song of Songs you mention, is essentially about limiting one’s pleasures REASONABLY for one’s own and the good of others.
            At least that’s how it’s interpreted most of the time.
            But even there, such limits were more enforced on some people than others.
            But back then, people’s behaviors most of the time were greatly misunderstood and there were no medicines or approaches of different disciplines that are far more effective than religious discipline can help or change.
            And the enjoyment of life, was also limited to the kinds of things children would be limited to.
            Not adults.
            So my point is: this is still the 21st century. Not the first. It’s 5777 in the Hebraic calendar.
            And fortunately a LOT more is known and understood by humanity, than the arbitrary codes of the Bible have set for them.
            So that even the restrictions that have tempered the reactionary stoning factor, aren’t healthy either. Nor workable or the truth.
            What Christians interpret as dismissal of Biblical doctrine, is a matter of human beings knowing a lot more than the Bible has to offer them.
            And sometimes, in the cases of some of the comments here, when a person is at their lowest, or most vulnerable period in their lives, is when Christians have the most influence.
            And not always in a good way.

          • CCW

            Ok, so you’re not a Christian and you don’t claim to follow Christ or believe in things like sin, our need of redemption, etc and to you the bible is arbitrary nonsense….so I don’t expect you to agree with me on this issue but I am confused by your engagement here then.

            The issue at hand, as articulated in the article, is about those who say they are Christian yet don’t follow Christ. They’re not Christian. That’s what the article is saying. They’re walking in what the bible says is sin and doing so in an unrepentant way and you, though not a Christian, are taking issue with the article saying, it’s sin and they’re not Christian.

            Why? Clearly, like yourself, they’re not Christian and if anything the article is just clarifying that reality….which I would assume is good news for someone who thinks the bible is arbitrary hogwash.

            We are told to assess those who claim to be disciples of Jesus while not doing that with those who don’t. I.E. hold those who claim to be Christian to a different standard than those who don’t:

            1 Corinthians 5:12 | 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

            That’s what the article is effectively doing. It mentions nothing about those who don’t claim to be Christian.

            So what skin do you have in this game?

          • It is all about stoking her own ego, so that she can feel superior to anyone who claims the blood of Christ.

          • Regan DuCasse

            I can speak for myself thank you. Another bad habit Christians have.
            I have no need to feel superior, I don’t use God and the Bible as irrefutable objects of debate so that nothing else can be spoken or challenged.
            I don’t use the Bible as an instrument in which to deny the character of another person (especially gay people), in the same way no heterosexual has to endure.
            I’m willing, as a heterosexual person, to place myself in a situation in which I don’t have blanket acceptance and don’t expect it.
            Just as in real life, I’m not accepted unconditionally as a black person or a woman.
            It’s distinguishing that which is my individual character, from using another factor as an excuse to being treated wrongly.
            I see gay people being treated with double standards, just as I’ve seen myself and other people of color confronted with those types of standards.
            I”m not so fragile as you are where I need God and Christ and all their followers to validate who I am, my needs or for them to dictate them to me.
            Such as in your suggestion I take Xanax.
            What I AM about, is not having people like you, restraining the opportunity to know gay people better and unconditionally.
            Because I KNOW what being Christian is all about. And have most of my life.
            It’s not having as much knowledge and experience with gay people that’s more important to me now.

            And I see people like you, matt and the anti gay religious conservatives as a road block to that.

          • A real martyr! ALL HAIL REAGAN! SHE IS GOING TO SET US FREE FROM THE SHACKLES OF RELIGION! AND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH HER, YOU ARE A BIGOTED, IGNORANT HOMOPHOBE!

          • Regan DuCasse

            The grown ups are trying to have a conversation. Evidently, you don’t like it when adults do that.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Generalization is a big part of conversations here. Blanket assumptions based on assumptions made by people who wrote 66 (or so we think) books that chronicled their experience, beliefs and the systems of it they were following. Under quite brutal, and controlling systems at that.
            My identity shouldn’t matter. What should, is where the progression of human integration and social justice is going to go.
            These are all extremely important to human beings trusting in each other, and knowing FULLY who each other is.
            If you keep insisting that gay people and their supporters are conspiring to do something nefarious at the expense of your belief system, then you’re making an example of the double standards you present gay people with.
            You want to be listened to and believed, as if you haven’t had THOUSANDS of years and opportunity to do so.
            As if I haven’t had a Christian education my entire life.
            I just don’t wear it on my chest as if it’s a character or spiritual fitness badge.
            It’s wrong to treat people like that, as if only Christian identity matters. And those who haven’t professed it to your satisfaction are deserving of distrust, if not derision.
            YOU are putting words in, I didn’t say. Like hogwash, and nonsense. I haven’t disrespected all of it in that manner and wouldn’t.
            YOU need to learn how to listen to more than the echo chamber.
            There is a lot more going on than you want to handle and the Bible gives you permission to ignore the complexity that’s really going on about THIS subject in particular.

          • CCW

            Look, it’s not an assumption to say you think the bible is arbitrary and non-authoritative. You say as much over and over again.

            The article is saying these folk who say they are followers of Jesus are not because of what Jesus said and has been given to us by God through the biblical witness. Which you’ve already dismissed as authoritative so I’m still not sure what you’re end game here is?

            Understanding? No…because you’re arguing for a view point that you want to convince of us..i.e. the article and those such as myself who ascribe the NT teachings are wrong. You believe we are wrong and want to point that out.

            You think we are archaic, ill-informed, and narrow minded. Have you said that explicitly? No. But come on….you’re here proselytizing and I’d rather you be honest about it than speak through a veil of being sympathetic and understanding or some such nonsense.

            You accuse me of not listening and only living in an echo chamber. So to clarify.

            I hear you. I understand what you are saying. And, you’re wrong.

            See how easy that is.

            Why can’t we have conversations where we don’t accuse the other of not listening etc when that’s not the case and there is actually a divergent and irreconcilable view on something.

            That’s where real conversation can start. And it’s where the conversation about Jesus always starts. So though you criticize me for giving higher value to the Christian identity or some such thing, I accept that accusation as true.

            But not in that I’m better than you or some other kind of thing. I’m as wretched a sinner as they come. Gutter trash that Jesus picked up and claimed as his own. The evil things I’ve done. The despicable things I’ve thought and felt. My sexual sin. My adulterous heart. My lust. My iniquity.

            But Jesus called me to turn from those things and to him and his mercy and grace. We all have our crosses to bear and persistent sins and wayward desires that plague us and there is grace upon grace for those things. But to call what Jesus calls sin, not-sin, is to not follow him and to not say as He did that apart from him you will perish is to not follow him.

            So if you want to talk about Jesus we can do that, because he’s the crux of the whole thing. He claimed to be God. He claimed he was dying for the forgiveness of our sins. He claimed to have the right to call us to abandon anything that he disagreed with and that following him meant taking up a cross daily and pursuing him. And that cross we might bear would include wayward sexual desires. He said that apart from him only the wrath of God for sin remains and that only in him is life to be found as lose our lives for his sake.

            Jesus was pretty clear about those things and they present a view of things that is divergent and irreconcilable and this has been the message of the church for thousands of years as rightly said. Some believe and follow Jesus. Some don’t.

            If you don’t, ok. We can talk about Jesus because if you don’t embrace him I don’t expect you and I to have agreement on this subject and countless others.

            But the article is about those who claim they do follow Jesus; when clearly they do not.

            Why is that a problem?

          • Regan DuCasse

            So you also come from a place of being down, desperate and without somewhere to go?
            Okay then.
            Not all gay people end up there, because they are gay.
            And as for “I hear you, I understand, and you’re wrong”
            Well.
            Tried and done. To get to the conclusion of wrongness, is to look at all the other religious families with a gay person in it. And what happened.
            The blame went on the gay person, not being religious enough. Not having the self restraint to see others all around them pair bonding, but they’d have to put on a grin and accept that it wasn’t for them and THEY’D be wrong to aspire to it.
            See?
            Your way, is NOT NEW.
            It’s been done, as isn’t as workable as you want believed.
            When I witness something isn’t working, and the results aren’t consistent, nor productive, then YOUR claims are the empty ones.
            And blaming a lack of faith, isn’t going to cut it.
            That isn’t selling any more because reality isn’t going away.
            You expect unconditional trust, no matter what gets messed up in the process. Then pretend there hasn’t been anything messed up.

            You demand a lot, more than deserved really.
            All kinds of people have claimed following Christ, but don’t.
            And you expect the lay person in the street to know the difference, and if we don’t, then we must be ignorant?
            Your claims and insistence is out there. It’s all of a piece, according to YOU.
            And if I’m trying to sift through the noise, and get to the heart of it all, I get slammed for it.
            It’s a problem, because Christians make a lot of noise, then act like they are being silenced and no one can hear them, or knows their message.
            You couldn’t care less to what degree someone might actually be more devout and spiritually grounded than you.
            Just in a different way.
            My life sure didn’t spiral out of control the way some people admitted their lives did.
            I partially shared some of the experiences mentioned here.
            But I didn’t and couldn’t blame my sexual orientation for my problems. And maybe THAT is why I am more grounded, even though I’m a part of a minority and a woman in which marginalization has been a risk my entire life.
            I don’t use that either, nor come here to keeping stereotypes about women and/or blacks in play.
            Only homosexuality gets WAY too much attention as a human flaw worthy of eradication.
            But let’s not forget how gender, color and so on got that treatment too.
            So examining the persistence in distrust of homosexuality and all the misrepresentations it gets is important.
            I know why a Christian would think it’s a sin.
            But the excessive attention to it, and the damage from it, is in evidence.
            I don’t make that up. It’s what happens.
            And I have good reason to know why.

          • Giauz Ragnarock

            “I know why a Christian would think it’s a sin.”

            It boils down to “it’s wrong because Jesus and not some other dictator like Hitler or Stalin gave me carte blanche encouragement to kill just a few of our kids”. Otherwise these “homosexual acts” are just a Tuesday (TV Tropes!) for many straight couples.

          • CCW

            Also, unprecedented acceptance is not true. Study Greco Roman sexuality. Same sex attraction and sex were openly practiced and accepted. Hell, they even embraced pedophilia though it was called pederasty…so that line of argumentation doesn’t hold any water.

            And the distinction is arbitrary in that you would probably not afford a person who has innate sexual inclinations towards children the same pass you do same sex attraction. I’m not saying they are the same; but I am saying if the presence of a desire is enough to justify it and make it’s fulfillment morally permissible in one case, why not another – whether that’s pedophilia, incest, bestiality, poly-amorous/polygamous arrangements, etc.

            We’re both drawing lines about what is appropriate sexual desire and expression. Mine are because we are made male/female and sex was created for the purpose of the union of husband/wife as one for intimacy, enjoyment, and procreation as intended by God and revealed most clearly the NT teachings in that it images the union of Christ and his bride, the Church – (Eph 5:31-32).

            Now, you can say that’s wrong, backwards, ignorant of me and ultimately arbitrary and you’re entitled to that opinion and critique.

            But I’m also able to point out that your choice of where to draw the lines and boundaries around appropriate sexual desire and expression are just as arbitrary as you accuse mine of being.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Oh STOP it with that crap! Really, I had this thrown in my face and the distinction is clinical, as well as moral between PATHOLOGY, PARAPHILIAS and sexual orientation.
            Ancient cultures embraced some things that ARE unacceptable.
            But here is where the standards fall down, inconsistent with the stated purpose.
            You’re only harping on same sex attraction as wrong within pederasty. But young girls were taken as WIVES in the Biblical cultures and STILL are.
            The proof?
            We have century and a half year old laws on our books in over 30 states in the US, that allows grown men to marry adolescent girls.
            That is heterosexual men who have demanded it, and maintained it.
            But did religious conservatives go after THOSE laws?
            No.
            Did ANY conservatives?
            No.
            Even when it was pointed out to them.
            I for one, completely agree that ALL desire is justified.
            But clinically and socially, pathology and paraphilias are unacceptable because they are obsessive, non correspondent desires.
            That is to say, the object of desire has no mutual desire.
            Children aren’t sexually attracted to adults.
            And different species, or inanimate objects aren’t either and can’t consent.
            Homosexuality is NOT in any of those categories. But wrongly continues to be place in that, as well as an addiction, or unfettered, uncontrollable aspect of lust.
            Those of us who support gay people and know what sexual orientation is, know this, and understand such important distinctions be made for the sake of an HONEST and morally effective social infrastructure.
            To claim we have no idea about restraint about desire, is DISHONEST, morally and intellectually.
            Own that.
            Again, when you make the wrong assumptions about a behavior, you will approach it wrongly.
            Gay people AND society can benefit the same way from encouraging monogamy, responsibility for each other and children, as well as productivity and contribution in everything that heterosexuals are supported and applauded in doing.
            Clearly, homosexuality doesn’t inhibit this potential. It’s prejudice that does.
            So it’s the prejudice that needs to be gone, not the homosexuality.
            Asexual people have NO desire for sex. They don’t have any attraction to it, nor want to have it. There are variations on gender in this also.
            Where they might be slightly more attracted to the opposite or same sex, as a life traveling companion. Someone who can comingle responsibility, but having sex isn’t a goal, nor is having children necessarily.
            But a child needs to be raised in love, whether it’s by their biological parents or not.
            That they CAN be raised by people as an alternative to their biological parents is just as important.
            Just as having people who are talented, productive, loving and responsible within same sex pair bonding.
            Since such a thing is possible, it should be ENABLED because it harms nothing, and no on that this happen.

            What you don’t want to believe, is that gay people channeling their sexuality within such desire and expression that’s accepted among heterosexuals, can benefit society also.
            That is your prejudice that believes that.
            Not reality.

          • While monogamy is an ideal goal, that is not reality. I can personally attest to this as I had about forty different men in my bed. I have no idea how many of them were with other men. Two of them were married to other guys. Men (gay and straight) find it difficult to remain monogamous (this is why I had to get an HIV test). When you get two guys together, the chances are nil that they won’t engage is sex. This why you aren’t qualified to speak on these matters. You aren’t gay. You aren’t male. You live in a lofty world where if we all hold hands and sing ‘We Are The World’ and just love each other, everything will be fine. It isn’t. It will never be. You should know this working with law enforcement.

            You would think that after forty men in my bed, after having a boyfriend who was just as promiscuous as I, the married ones, I would have found love with one of them. Nope. It was just meaningless sex.

            I finally found the love I needed through Jesus Christ, but you proudly declare the Bible to be wrong. How can it be wrong when I am finally at peace with myself? You are angry. I get that, as I was full of anger at Christians for many years. You are full of pride. I get that, as I was full of pride which manifested itself in my anger towards Christians. You are full of righteous indignation. I get that, because I have to live in a world with people who do not always approve of my past. Some of them even look down on me. That is fine because the wisdom of Jesus when he said “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” Matthew 7:1-5
            I was judging other Christians for what a few had done and I was wrong. The same goes for you. You too are judging Christians as a whole for what a few bad ones have done.
            Life sucks. The Bible says so in John 16:33. This isn’t a perfect world and it won’t be until Christ returns. Religions have impossible standards for some and seem to approve of the bad behaviors of some. This is why I don’t follow any religion: I just love the Lord. He was there to rescue me when I nearly died. He finally gave me the peace I needed in my life. He can give you the peace in your life too, if you just develop a relationship with Him. Believe in Jesus Christ. Pray for forgiveness of your sins (all of them). Ask the Holy Spirit to come into your heart and dwell in you.

          • Regan DuCasse

            I made a grammatical error below. I meant to say that I DO NOT agree, that all desire is justified.
            I know precisely that it is NOT.
            Not for heterosexuals OR for gay people.
            However, heterosexuals are more dangerous in this regard, because a child can issue under terrible conditions and they have.
            Sorry for the error. Didn’t want you to pounce on something I didn’t mean to say.

          • “And the Bible IS wrong…” YOU said this. Enough said.

          • Regan DuCasse

            I sure did say it. So?
            I was right about you, not being able to explain my moral distinctions to you. And its’ ‘enough said’.
            You’ve already been insulting in such a way, you called your insult, my lack of having a sense of humor.
            Yes, YOU decided a while ago, to try some very nasty comments, and you think that in defending your beliefs, that’s what you should get away with?
            Christians are extremely thin skinned about this. Whether they are gay or not.
            Being so insecure is unattractive.
            I just told you I have more in common with you, than you give me credit for.
            But you couldn’t start from THAT.
            No, you’ll take offense at a challenge to your beliefs, not FACTS, beliefs.
            You can’t unring your original bell: when you’re cornered, you’ll only articulate two things: other people’s words from the Bible, or an insult.
            I managed to have an adult, conversation with a few other people.
            You opened the door on this thread with an insult, now you can’t walk it back.
            But you keep putting that on me.
            As if you have MY number.

          • Regan DuCasse

            I said it. I’ll own that. YOU however, don’t even try to own what you say, especially if it’s an outright insult and meant to be offensive.
            The way you take offense, and the way you give offense, speaks volumes about how insecure you still are.
            Even after all the sound and fury in trying to defend your beliefs.

          • Sandi Luckins

            Homosexuals singled themselves out when they started to lie to people that homosexuality is not a sin. They caused their own problems. The church is only trying to help people to not go to Hell because of these lies.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Right, and black people singled THEMSELVES out, when they started to try and be treated like whites.
            And women singled themselves out when they dared to try to vote, or challenge the realms of men in ministry, politics, medicine, law….
            Homosexuality is NOT a sin. And to put truth to it, if all the gay people went away tomorrow, what problems and sins of the world would go away with them?
            That is proof of moral neutrality. Gay people most of all, have worked to be completely open, honest and integrated with humanity without threat, coercion and punishment.
            The Church lies when they say their motive is to save gay souls. To restrict any knowledge of who gay people are and their intent and purpose. The Church does not want people to really know or find out through the most reliable source: gay people themselves.
            I don’t think you’d appreciate a man lecturing a female on what she deserves to have during labor, or that HE is more expert on childbearing than a woman that’s born children.

            So your ideas about homosexuality are going to go by the wayside, because there are better, more compassionate and intellectually moral people who know better than you do about that.
            And know much better than the writers of the Bible knew about it.
            The way we know better about the pain of child birth too.
            And can challenge you rightfully on how ignorant and insufferably so, you are.

          • Sandi Luckins

            There is a vast difference between race and immorality.

          • Regan DuCasse

            There is also a vast difference between gender and nationality. But people have been singled out to be punished for factors they have no control over and didn’t choose.
            Injustice is injustice. It’s been directed at people for their sexual orientation, gender, nationality and color.
            And all have been told that their distinction is a sin. So it’s the religious that can’t distinguish sin from innocence in many ways.
            And not being able to do that, is wrong and there IS a moral imperative to know the difference.

          • Sandi Luckins

            sin is always a choice.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Sandi, I haven’t figured out if you’re a woman or not. But I’ll remind you of history. Some older history in which those with mental illness were tortured, and sometimes burned at the stake to will out their demons. Or as punishment for offenses taken by those forced to follow church doctrine. I can fast forward to recent history, where homosexuality was also considered mental illness, but wrongly classified as such because the only research and test subjects were those subjected to institutionalization, and not those who successfully integrated into society.
            Mental illness cannot be prayed away, nor treated like something that is infectious. It is a sub category in which any human being might be subject to it, and sometimes families have predisposition for them.
            But would you have diagnostic techniques remain at over three hundred years old?
            Or do you trust that diagnostic techniques have improved and are more accurate? Therefore, those invested in truly helping people, can do so more effectively for their betterment?

            Putting a blanket assumption, on a wrongful diagnosis, won’t create a better SITUATION for that person. Even simply putting people in a room and walking away doesn’t help them either.
            There is a moral responsibility to being rightful in what you’re approaching for the outcome to work.
            In other words, if a person doesn’t have cancer, chemo or any other therapy won’t work, because they aren’t ill to begin with.
            Sins, as defined by religious communities, has too broad a definition, and no concise means of being accurate in addressing it.

          • Sandi Luckins

            And…..sin is always a choice.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Well, you not engaging the recent history and those better informed than you are is YOUR choice.
            It’s just that no innocent gay kid should have to pay the price for YOUR choice.

          • Sandi Luckins

            No child who thinks they are homosexual has to. Christ died to save us from our sin. He said He would forgive and heal us of our sin. There is good news for that child. They don’t need to remain a homosexual with no hope. Jesus gives life and life more abundantly. What about you? Do you know Jesus?

          • Regan DuCasse

            Sandi, yes they do. They aren’t choosing to be gay. We are made of more orientations than just heterosexual. And the other orientations ARE just as valid, and important. Just not as common.
            We all have blood, but it’s different types.
            You doing to say that the less common blood is BAD blood?
            It’s ignorant, fearful humans and not all of them, that decided to vilify being gay.
            I’ve heard from Christians, the Bible and Christ all my life.
            Haven’t had that same opportunity to hear from gay people.
            So yes, gay people ARE gay, need to stay that way, for the sake of the truth coming out too.
            Nobody is born Christian.
            But everyone is born with a sexual orientation. Period.
            It’s Christians who are the bad guests, deciding to rearrange something in someone that is vital to THEM.
            And not for YOU or anyone else to keep deciding otherwise.
            It’s not hopeless to be gay, and it’s arrogant of you to assume that.
            Everyone that keeps saying that to a young gay person, sets them up for emotional and spiritual blackmail and depression if they don’t measure up to what YOU think they should.
            You and your ilk, had your turn.
            And now it’s someone else’s turn. It’s time for a gay child to speak their needs, without people like you running interference.
            What about me?
            It’s NOT about me.
            But someone else’s needs beyond the limits you want to set up for them.
            I just saw a post on Facebook, by a gay man who has been with his husband for 20 years. It’s their anniversary.
            He said that when he was so young, he’d been selfish ( a lot of young people can be), and didn’t know a lot about the world.
            But his slightly older husband, has made him a committed husband and father to their two adopted kids. And he’s praised his husband, and extols even more love for him and their children.
            Children by the way, they’ve taken around the world, and this country.
            One of them was born with a serious defect and told when he was very little that no one would love him, want him or adopt him.
            Well, they were wrong.
            And one of the dads has been serving as a SF sheriff’s deputy for twenty years.

            I know a lot of gay couples like that. Who have gone over and beyond a call greater than claiming love for Jesus.
            Does it not occur to you, that without saying it so much, that the love for God is shown in much better more important ways?
            Don’t you EVER ask me again.
            Because I know you don’t really care.

          • Sandi Luckins

            homosexuality is a choice and it is a sin.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Repeating that, in a court of law, or the court of public opinion is meaning less and less.
            There are more intelligent, moral and honest people than yourself, committed to the kinds of social justice that must prevail.
            If it’s at the expense of your opinion on homosexuality, so be it.
            It’s time.

          • jstan442

            there are intelligent unsaved ppl who trade in a lie for the truth–just becoz they are smart does not mean they are right in the eyes of a Holy God–but we are all given free choice–you just choose to be sinful–you do remember sodom and gomorrah? judgment is coming

          • Regan DuCasse

            Live in fear, jstan. You just be afraid for you own hide. Just not at the expense of opportunity, for gay people to be known better, and who they really are, than your doctrine tries to tell and dictate.
            Yeah, I remember S&G, a place under siege where a man charged with helping angels disguised as strangers, threw them to an angry mob, with his daughters in the bargain to save his own skin.
            He was an amoral coward.
            Homosexuality isn’t cowardice.
            And neither is it to try and have the option to know gay people fully, and with open honest inclusion.
            MY choice is to have each and every opportunity to have this in my life.
            And I’m sick and tired of people like you trying to take it from me and other people.
            If you respect choices, than actually let other people know gay people fully, instead of cutting them off from us, with an endless parade of gay people whose limitations or limits being forced on them, won’t allow that to happen.
            If YOU are afraid of judgement. Then that’s YOUR choice.
            Be afraid, I don’t care.
            Just don’t spread that fear infection. Fear and ignorance, or anything advanced by it, is never good.

          • jstan442

            God and the Bible do NOT lie–He loves everyone and wants to save everyone–but not all will be saved–more will suffer thru their unbelief and living in their sin–a place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth–if your choice is against His written law-fine–but don’t try to tell me about spreading fear etc–it is you who deny the word of God-it is you who want to send others to hell becoz of sex–sodom and gommorah is a warning-heed it

          • Regan DuCasse

            “it is you who deny the word of God…”

            And how many times have I told you I heard it already? Do you really think so much repetition is helping here?
            Do you?
            Don’t try to tell you about spreading fear.
            “There will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth…”
            “It’s you who wants to send others to hell, because of sex, Sodom and Gommorah is a warning, heed it.”

            Then why throw hell, and such doom in people’s faces if that’s not what you’re trying to spread?
            Dude, we’re still waiting.
            The real question is: if the warning isn’t heeded, what are YOU going to do about it?
            It’s still just us folks here, jstan.
            Or hadn’t you noticed?

          • jstan442

            you choose where you want to end up eternally–that is a gift from God–do you deny Jesus exists? (i really don’t know)–yes help ppl here with medical, food, home etc but also help them give up sin–no one who continues in their sin will enter heaven—-and rejecting jesus is the unpardonable sin–no going back from that

          • Regan DuCasse

            “Do you deny Jesus exists”( I really don’t know).
            That’s right you don’t. Because not once, have you actually engaged me in such a way, I thought you really cared.
            I’ve been asked in a rhetorical way. In such a way that I didn’t think anyone really thought I knew anything about God and Christ.
            Even after saying I was raised in church, own a Bible and know it very well.
            I didn’t think you were interested, and especially not in what my relationship with God or Christ actually is.
            Because right up front, you let me know that whatever answer I gave, was going to be met with insult and consistent condescension, if not hostility.
            None of us is the same, so taking the same paths, even to get to the same place, isn’t going to be that possible.
            You didn’t ask, how rocky or tough my path might have been.
            And it wouldn’t be wrong to think you really don’t care.
            You don’t.
            You’ve called me names, and no matter how many times I said I need more than the same pat answer, you give me the same pat answer anyway.
            If I can predict what you’ll say, then there isn’t much reason for you to say it, or me to hear it if I did already.
            You assume rejection of Jesus, when really, it’s rejection of YOU.
            You rejected me first, so responding in kind would be reasonable.
            As long as you keep forgetting that you’re talking to someone who has heard the same thing you have, and possibly longer than you have, and is looking for something different or more, that means you can’t deliver.
            You haven’t so far.
            That’s not my fault, nor my problem.
            Remember, I’m not gay either. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to take this off of you, or anyone.
            I’m pretty sure, God can handle rejection, and doesn’t intimidate me in the least. I don’t see God as being so wrathful, or controlling.
            But other human beings sure love doing that kind of thing.
            So don’t attack me, because I know the difference.

          • Regan DuCasse

            I thought you really should know this Sandi, parents, even parents who are from religious families, are learning how to truly address their gay child. And they will give up their religious community for that child, if necessary.
            Because blood is thicker than any holy book.
            Parents are learning not just to accept, but protect their gay or trans child.
            They know that spiritually, and emotionally, it’s incumbent on them, to know and learn as much as possible about their child’s distinctive qualities.
            Which aren’t a handicap or prohibitive in that child being a success in so many other arenas.
            Being Christian, or whatever religion, really isn’t as important as you’d like to think.
            For now, the parents of gay children have been much less intimidated, and are far more civil than those who attack their children.
            But keep pushing it Sandi. And you’ll fight yourself on the receiving end of tiger parents of gay children who wouldn’t mind seeing a stake through your heart.
            Know when to back the hell off.
            Know YOUR place.
            And know that you don’t know everything, and shouldn’t interfere in that process.
            Because but for the safety of you hiding behind a computer monitor and keyboard, I am a mother tiger too.
            You were warned.

          • Sandi Luckins

            homosexuality is a sin

          • P0xi

            Sandi, sin is not real.

            You are in a cult, and everything you believe is a lie.

          • Sandi Luckins

            Jesus helps me. Who helps you in your cult?

          • P0xi

            I am not in a cult.
            Why do you think I’m in a cult? Do you think everyone needs to be in a cult?
            That’s silly, you know.

            Have you ever touched Jesus? Have you ever seen him? Have you been in the same room as him? Or is he just a man who lived and died two thousand years ago, and now a bunch of people worship him like a god?

            I think it’s obvious what the truth is. Stop lying to yourself.
            Jesus was just a normal guy, and he doesn’t help you.
            You’re just in a cult that makes you think you need to rely on them.

          • Sandi Luckins

            I’ve experienced the love of Jesus in ways you will never understand. I suggest you learn something about the lifestyle before you attempt to condemn it. You only make yourself look silly.

          • P0xi

            That’s the same thing people say about drugs.
            “Just try it man, you’ll never know until you try it”.

            Sorry, but I won’t take the classic “Opiate of the masses”.
            I hope you know that quote, or you are seriously in a little bubble.

          • jstan442

            what a caustic little troll you are!! sandi is right–but the end times ppl will be lovers of themselves and defy the word of God–it is all going as the Bible prophesied—do you even believe in God? i don’t think so otherwise you would be more concerned with where your child will end up in eternity–separated from God or enjoying life with Him?

          • Zac

            So when the woman you sleep with (I guess your wife?) gets HIV and transmits it to you, what will you say then? Will god have sent HIV to prove to you what a nasty little shit you are?

          • Stacy

            Bradley is correct, Sandi. There are certain people who are here only to cause trouble, troll Matt, and make you frustrated. The only way to make the trolls go away is not to feed them. Save your effort for those who want to listen. Not for those who just want to fight.

          • Sandi Luckins

            My apologies to the group.

          • Stacy

            No need to apologize. Some of us are actually here to help :o)

          • Lyle Nelson

            Biblically required execution of gays was part of Old Testament law that is no longer required because of Jesus’ fulfillment of the law for us through His perfect life and death for our sins on the cross. That means that now, homosexual activity is still declared to be a sin, along with many, many other sins. But there are no Christian “requirements” for immediate punishment. And if we repent of our sin, and accept Jesus as our Savior, His death has paid the penalty for our sin. But we must still give up our sin, and when we as imperfect humans still occasionally sin, we must genuinely repent of that sin, and continue to do our best to lead a sinless life. This is true for all sin, there is no “discrimination” against homosexual sin. Sin is sin period.
            As to how gays are currently treated, I will readily admit that there is much room for improvement there, even among Christians.
            And civil law is a whole different animal, not bound by Christian standards.

          • P0xi

            Lyle, didn’t you just say that the Bible is unchanging?

            But now because of some fulfillment of the law, it changed?

            Sheesh, the word is on the tip of your tongue, isn’t it?
            You know the word.

            C

            U

            L

            T

            That’s right Lyle. You are seeing the truth slowly.
            Be brave, and hold onto the love in your heart.

            But accept the truth.
            The truth is that empirical evidence is worth more than the Bible.
            Logic is worth more than the Bible.
            The feelings and words of a real person who is alive today is worth more than the feelings and words of a person who is dead, and wrote the Bible thousands of years ago.

            Respect the living, and honor the dead. But do not favor the dead over the living.
            When it comes down to it, you have chosen to live a life filled with judgement towards the innocent, because you falsely believe that they are evil, despite causing no real harm. Don’t play word games with me. Gay people do no harm to other people, except where real harm is concerned. You can’t fool me. There is evil in this world. This evil harms the innocent, and ruins a person’s life because they are judged for non-harmful actions.

            You are the evil one, Lyle. I see it. I have the eyes of a child, and I see the evil in your words. I see each and every lie you speak. You do not know they are lies, but I can see it plain as day.

            Repent and see the truth.
            You need to make the decision that will change your life and your entire world.
            You need to do this, or you are nothing more than a brainwashed cultist without a mind.

          • TROLL TROLL TROLL! TROLL RIGHT HERE!

          • Bobbie Murdock

            You sound like you might be Wiccan? That belief is considered a cult, is it not?

          • P0xi

            No, I’m not in any belief.

            That’s why I’m here being an ass. I see the reality of the situation clearly, and I’d disagree with all religions.

            Only, this one happens to be recommending: “I’ve been asking myself this question for some time, and, after seeking
            the Lord’s wisdom in the Scriptures, I have arrived at the conclusion
            that I cannot extend the hand of fellowship to a gay-affirming
            person—nor can I affirm his or her salvation.”

            Magic and miracles are not real for any religion, and even if they were, this sort of thing is quite cruel to innocent people.

            I mean, if you want to call being gay “evil”, to the point that they should be tortured by demons in hell, that’s pretty harsh. I mean, if being gay is evil, I’m sure Christians do many worse things, such as cut people off in traffic sometimes, even hogging the coffee machine at work, or whatever else must be worse than being gay.

            And even if you did think those lil’ demons were gonna torture people- The author going so far as to refuse the hand of fellowship with a person? That’s a very dark thing to say.

            When a person uses their religion as a reason to see people as enemies, and refuse friendship with perfectly good, friendly people, the reality of the situation becomes very clear.

          • Regan DuCasse

            It’s been a while. I was surprised. What prompted you posting this?

          • More memory recovery, and study of the word. But we all have to heal from the past mistakes of the religious authorities. Some have admitted past mistakes and following the likes of St. Augustine of Hippo. Stupid pride will not allow some members of the church to admit they were wrong, but that is no excuse for the LGBT community to reject God or His word. There needs to be forgivness on both sides.

          • Regan DuCasse

            I’m just going to say, that Christianity has had a powerful, and not always positive influence on the LGBT community. Religious groups are petitioning the courts to be able to discriminate, without consequences.
            Despite this, there ARE millions of gay and trans people that DO love God and Christ, but still aren’t able to unconditionally, but still under unreasonable and contradictory standards.
            And because there is still much oppression with regard to civil law, demanding forgiveness from the LGBT community, is asking too much sometimes.
            When there isn’t even understanding coming from the Christian side to simply back off enough for the LGBT community to find their own levels.
            I’ll say it again: it’s the Christian side that’s been oppressive, and invasive, not the LGBT.
            Because of the simple fact that it’s gay folks who have ALWAYS been a part of ALL human life. Have had no reason to oppress, nor have done so or have a controlling interest in Christians.
            It’s Christians who have been the bad guests with ideology, and gay people who have biological legitimacy.
            Christians choose being Christian, and to what degree.
            Gay folks do not.
            And until gay folks have the essential ability to be as freely without religious constraints in the non religious realm, you’ve got some heavy sledding.
            They don’t have any reason to temper themselves, nor be forgiven in the first place.
            It’s true, some Christians have admitted past mistakes, but aren’t charging heterosexuals with tempering THEIR behavior the way they demand it of the gay and trans folks.
            To put it simply: if all the gay folks disappeared tomorrow, what of the world’s most important problems would disappear with them?
            The answer is NONE of them: therefore, committing gay folks to shoulder responsibility for those problems, is unnecessary and grossly unfair.

            The church is rightly called out on their double standards. And until that is addressed, then Christians have some serious explaining to do.
            And yes, they are obligated to.
            Christians are already demanding a lot they aren’t entitled to.
            That’s something else to be considered.

          • Nebojsa

            Funny, after reading your comments and your story I was just thinking that you seem to have turned into a complete guild-ridden sex-obsessed lunatic, just like Augustine had. Interesting that you mention him.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Yeah, I was just reading that bit…
            and something stuck out at me “who says that just because I’m same sex attracted, that I have to give in?”
            Well, nobody actually.
            Nobody HAS to say it.
            Attraction is instinctual, and typically has no need of instruction or requirements.
            It’s how one treats another within a romantic interest that does require instruction for those relationships to be optimized, socially, physically, and emotionally.
            What most of us have been taught to believe, to know about ss attraction and gay people, is just the opposite. More than that.
            That being ss attracted, in and of itself, means that your character and motives are ALWAYS suspect.
            SS attracted people, particularly ss attracted CHILDREN have been treated harshly, when no sex life is in evidence.
            What does that tell you and why I brought up the question: if all the gay folks disappeared tomorrow, what of the world’s problems would disappear with them?
            Religion isn’t rational, nor consistent.
            And according to the most religious, hasn’t any options for change or evolution.
            Hence then, not much point in reading religious texts over and over again and expecting different results.
            Gay folks were written off and have been, as wicked and worthless and worthy of being dead.
            If gay folks themselves are supposed to believe that, then your only option as you say…is to do the work of Christians for them.
            Or else, you might as well let them kill you.
            And so, gay folks are expected to not do things for themselves, but are to be solely in the service of Christian doctrine, if they are to live at all.
            The problem is, is the belief that giving into one’s GOD GIVEN instinct to be romantically ss attracted , is very wrong and offensive and unworthy of pursuing.
            A lot of us, gay or not, struggle with romantic endeavors.
            Many of us have been betrayed, even abused by certain people and it’s not hard to exploit that experience.
            Especially among minorities, because there are fewer of us to share the journey with in common.
            Which is why I find requiring gay people to eschew romantic lives and use religion as if it’s a viable substitute, among minorities…, to be a form of genocide.
            In the same way there is a history of anti Semitic genocide, Christians that work overtime to convert Jews to Christianity seems to continue in that vein.
            I however, don’t get to use MY heterosexual orientation as the excuse, and reason to give up, if not give in.
            And being Christian isn’t going to change that a whole lot either.
            I find certain ways that Christians go about trying to attract people to THEIR cause, is just as self serving, and continually difficult to trust, as those who share my orientation.
            No, you don’t HAVE to give in.
            But I don’t think not doing so is all THAT hard. It’s really not.
            There nothing heroic or especially brave in it.
            That is, considering what’s at stake.
            Definitely not.
            And its’ unseemly for a celibate gay people to express themselves as if it is.
            Because the freedom you claim you have to decide (no fate), isn’t true for many young gay people still and especially in religious communities.
            This is the kind of contradictions in terms, no vulnerable gay person should have to confront.

          • (Matthew 7:1) “Judge not, lest ye be judged.”

            These are words thrown at me by the enemy, when he brings up my junk, making me feel defensive towards Christians. It is the Holy Spirit that reminds me that verse is written for me and no one else. God knows that religion owes us an apology, one that will likely never come due to pride. It is time for homosexuals to forgive the church, whether they ask for it or not, and come back to God. Your fomenting divisiveness and the past wrongs of the church and religion is of no help. It only serves to increase our distance, when what we need is God. Maybe then we can overcome our addictions and mental illnesses.

            This is for David Wells (I love you); Wesley (a drug addict and my exboyfriend); Mickey Savage (a friend who comitted suicide last year), Jonathan Russel (who got mutilated because he thought he was a woman); Josh (who is homeless and has been raped many times); Billy (who has instability problems); Darrrel (who went crazy); Ricky (who has AIDS); Bryan (who was hospitalized for gay sex injuries); and a slew of others I can’t remember because of the stroke:

            We need God, not religion; nor the likes of the LGBT community telling us that we should just do what we want because we were born this way.

            I know you always feel the need to have the last word, so please consider carefully Proverbs 26:1-12 before you go into another diatribe that I will ignore.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Earlier on, you misjudged ME before.
            “I know you always feel the need to have the last word”.
            Again. You misjudge.
            Not at all.
            YOUR words are important whether they are the last or not.
            But are they YOUR words?
            And you’re blanketing the gay community with a hedonistic attitude, that’s usually how misjudged minorities are treated.
            It’s not about “do what we want”.
            There are ALL kinds of people like that. It’s not because they’re gay (or black for that matter), it’s because of the kinds of individuals they are.
            Don’t you know that?
            Your litany of horrible things that happened to gay people you know, could happen to ANYONE.
            And has.
            So why do you keep doing that?
            What’s YOUR point in doing that.
            Same with making Biblical references…I”m familiar with the Bible.
            Doesn’t have nearly the sociological study references necessary to actually DO something about GENDER based behaviors.
            It’s not the Christian thing you need to share, I know all about what being Christian is and means.
            So please tell me, why did you throw the gay people you knew into the pit the way you did?

          • I probably shouldn’t reply, because the only thing that the LGBT community (which you are a part of) cares about is their political agenda and encouraging one to do as he feels, never mind if they become prostitutes or drug addicts; so what if they kill themselves. As long as the correct person is elected into office, right? And all Christians must BE CRUSHED BY ANY MEANS!
            At any rate, I remember. I care, even if no one else does. Go to your marches and wave your rainbow flag around. If you get the chance, look down though. You may be stepping on someone who killed themselves for the sake of being born that way.
            Adios 🙁

          • Regan DuCasse

            “…never mind if they become prostitutes and drug addicts..”
            “And all Christians must be CRUSHED BY ANY MEANS!”
            And…scene.
            Way to answer the question, Bradley.
            Again, expecting the gay community to be forgiving…when you’re putting on display, how little you’d do so.
            And you’re cutting me off.
            And therein is how any tragedy is compounded. Not the other way around.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Which part of “abomination” is it you don’t grasp? God does NOT condemn a behavior, the proceed to create a person incapable of acting and feeling in any other way. It is that behavior which you need to repent, not “explore” or “teach”. No human is built or meant to live in that practice. The OT execution was rescinded when Jesus gave us each the opportunity to repent our sins and be restored to relationship with God. But that does NOT, and never will, include continuing in the condemned (sinful) behavior and thought patterns. After that point, your comments seem to be an indictment of God for not allowing your continued rebellion against Him, and applying His stamp of approval to it. He doesn’t do that for any sin, be it any sexual activity outside the marriage of 1 man to 1 woman, or theft, or murder (including abortion), or any of the rest. Why, then, should you get a pass?

          • Regan DuCasse

            sandralee: I told you, I know what the Bible says about homosexuality, but it does NOT square with reality.
            And once you really know gay people without an ulterior motive, you’d know that.
            You’re emphatic, but you don’t know what you’re talking about because you haven’t put the time in.
            Tell me something, if you’d never been to medical school, to you argue with a surgeon that you know better how to remove an appendix because you read the Bible?

            Do you argue with a black person experienced with Jim Crow, that you know better about dealing with racism than they do, because you read the Bible?

            Or would you argue with a forensic crime researcher, not just versed in all human behavior, but who has close relationships with people who are gay, and your ONLY reference is a Biblical one?

            Why are you arguing about it with someone who knows actual gay people better than you do?
            There are definitions, delineations, and qualifiers regarding harmful human behaviors and benign ones.
            I just mentioned already what those distinctions are.
            And you choose to ignore them.
            See, treating another the way you’d be treated means you have to learn from the other side, as much as you want that side to learn from you.
            But I’ve HEARD your side, all my life.
            I was raised that way and if I’m older than you, longer than you have.
            The universe is bigger than the Bible. There is more that has been learned, needed and people are better for going beyond it and getting to know each other than just from a book.
            I’m not demanding a pass: YOU are.
            You don’t want to reciprocate, no matter how you sound to someone more experienced than you.

          • The execution of gays is a distortion of the facts. The ‘sodomites’ who were executed were temple prostitutes who sold their bodies for the worship of pagan gods. It had nothing to do with homosexuality. Of course facts don’t matter…

          • sandraleesmith46

            It sounds more as if you are asking/ expecting to be treated as YOU want,regardless how right or wrong your behavior may be. Discipline is never pleasant or comfortable, but it is necessary at times. What you appear to be expecting is for Christians, in particular, to enable your continued practice of that which we know tio be sin, and which I, as a nurse, also know to be as unhealthy on physical and psychological levels as on the spiritual level (sin). Enabling any unhealthy activity is, in fact, a most unloving (hateful) act. Is that what you REALLY want? Wouldn’t it be kinder and healthier to treat you with honesty and genuine love that cares enough to point out the harmful path you’re on?

          • Regan DuCasse

            What I expect isn’t unreasonable, nor unworkable because you DO accept it in heterosexuals.
            The discipline you demand of gay people IS unreasonable, and unworkable because it is a double standard, that requires expectations that most people shouldn’t have demanded of them, no matter what their gender or orientation.
            It sets them up, literally, for affection starvation and ideas about gender that’s already damaged all kinds of people because of the rule and enforcement set up differently around gender.
            Unhealthy activity is unhealthy for everyone. I just said that gay people benefit from monogamy, commitment and family growth as much as heterosexuals do.
            And by being encouraged in that, are better integrated into society at large.
            This all started because Bradley mentioned that his spontaneous act of comfort and affection towards another man, made him suspected in his church community.
            That is a HORRIBLE way to live.
            It’s gotten children beaten, and at risk for other things.
            What you insist is unhealthy, ISN’T for gay people. It’s just as healthy.
            With the same guidelines, it’s even less risky because there is no pregnancy that will occur.
            No, it’s NOT kind to have hetero people surround someone gay, with their pair bonding, marriages, children…
            And then tell a gay people, NOT for you. No, not even hugs and kisses and holding hands with your same gender.
            I said already, it’s like inviting hungry gay people to a feast, but only giving them crumbs, while everyone else gorges themselves and wastes a lot of the fare.
            It’s cruel to do that.

            The more you insist that even committed, monogamous love and responsibility to another is unhealthy and wrong, the more people are obviously PROVING otherwise.
            And this is why you and your beliefs are losing in the court of public opinion.
            You have no proof or evidence of what you’re saying.

          • I said I won’t respond to trolls, but I must correct you on something. You said “This all started because Bradley mentioned that his spontaneous act of comfort and affection towards another man, made him suspected in his church community.” This is wrong. The community didn’t suspect me of anything. One man did, and he is my friend. You make it sound as if there is some kind of gay gestapo out to get me. There isn’t. This man knows of my past and how bad it was. He was just making sure I hadn’t gone back into that lifestyle.
            And they were all with me when I went for my HIV test. I asked no one that I would be HIV free, just that I would conquer the spirit of fear which had taken over me. There was no judgment. Period. I had many people praying for me, including K-LOVE national Christian radio. There was no judgment. Period. And I think that is what galls you. None of the propaganda of the LGBT community or your rants is true. Period. Friday night, I went out with several brothers from my church, and they all know my past. None of them expected me to be or do anything but be a friend. Period.
            Proverbs 26:1-12
            You think you know everything, but you don’t. If the stroke taught me one thing it is this: despite all I thought I knew (the Hebrew, facts about the bible, all the kings of Israel, etc), I knew nothing.

          • Regan is a troll and an activist, trying to get a rise out of you. I recommend you don’t respond to her. Don’t feed the troll. Period.

          • sandraleesmith46

            Thanks for the heads-up. I won’t feed it further.

      • sandraleesmith46

        There are no “gay” people in the real world. And the Biblical “limits” were set in place because God knows our needs, as well as weaknesses. We are never to rely on our reasoning or our feelings for Truth, in any arena, most especially this particular one, because they are inherently deceptive! There aren’t double standards here; the single standard applies to all sins, of which homosexual rebellion against God’s plan is but one. The problem is not that “social good” hasn’t been done for practitioners of homosexuality, but that they haven’t yet repented their rebellion and entered into grace. It’s not for God to change, but for us, as sinful humans, to do so, starting with repentance, which means a 180 degree about face from our former behaviors accompanied by genuine remorse for them and a willingness to be transformed from our former selves into Jesus’ image. Doesn’t matter what the sin is, it’s the same process for each and every one of us! God allows you free will to choose, even if you choose shell as your end point. It’s not what He wants for you, but He will allow you to make that choice. However, He will not “bless” you in that choice, and that seems to be what you’re expecting.

        • Regan DuCasse

          “There are no gay people in the real world”.
          Homosexuality has existed in all human life, since all human life began.
          Gay people don’t practice it, sexual orientation is inherent in all of us. And there is no morals required because gender is morally neutral. And homosexuality is only defined by gender.
          You live in a world of immense diversity and variation, an you say that?
          Also, I just pointed out also how our human progress came about since the Biblical times recorded, because we needed to define and allow for being educated and well informed in order to make that progress.
          On Election Day, let me remind you of how little a woman could determine her own destiny in the Bible.

          “We are never to rely on our reasoning or our feelings, for Truth”.
          Reasoning that’s advanced human life beyond Earthly boundaries, or feelings like courage, curiosity, empathy, and restrained the reactionary violence that the Bible instructs? Even towards one’s own children for being ‘rebellious’?

          Especially in this arena, because they are deceptive.
          You’re trying to make me believe the Biblical teaching, that’s from a world and culture that was limited in scope in comparison. And people didn’t know or wanted to know anything of more depth to do with homosexuality or why gay people exist and their intent and purpose.
          But I’m supposed to deny the empirical experience of millions, in THIS day and age, as deceptive.

          Excuse me, sandralee: but let me remind you of what’s tangible and what’s intangible.
          Your intangible can’t trump the tangible. It’s that simple. And I have no fear of the intangible, and all your talk of some punishment for not repenting.
          I have borne witness to the kinds of people who’d turn on their neighbor, turn them in, watch happily someone being stripped and whipped.
          It’s like the Salem witch trials in here with the attitudes you and your cohorts have.
          Even pretense of civility goes out of the window, and reason and hysteria easily take over because you get so worked up over an offense that never happened.
          The day you give up voting, leaving your house without your head covered, anything you do that’s 21st century and not five BC, and the day you’re willing to give up every Constitutional and Bill of Rights protections you have, for the Biblical law you think should only apply to gay people..
          get back to me.
          You’re just another in a long, line of Christians whose DISOBEDIENCE to “treating another as you’d be treated” proves inconvenient for you.
          How humans treat one another, is always going to matter. And when you treat and are willing to, set up ONLY gay people for their distinction, in a way you wouldn’t put up with, then you’ve lost all credibility period.

    • sandraleesmith46

      Hypocrisy alienates, yes. But enabling (supporting, encouraging, accepting) unhealthy behavior is probably the single most unloving thing you can do for the practitioner thereof. Agape is unconditional love, but it’s also “tough ” love, an act of will, rather than an emotional response.

      • P0xi

        Sandra, for your own good, I’m gonna tell you something tough.

        You’re in a pyramid scheme cult, and the proof is this:

        If you believe and obey, you are rewarded.
        If you disobey and disbelieve, you are punished.

        Now tell me: Is that a religion for a human, or a religion for a dog?

        • sandraleesmith46

          Your assessment is wrong. Affirming that which is physically, emotionally and spiritually UNHEALTHY is unhealthy for you and whomever you are affirming (read enabling). If my beliefs disturb you, perhaps you should recheck your own!

          • P0xi

            Answer my question.

            Don’t play a fool. Don’t try to dodge this.

            Is your religion a cult? Do you obey like a robot? Do you feel like you’re righteous just because you follow rules from an ancient book? And truly, do you have a desire to convert people, or get people to follow your cult’s rules?

            You’re clearly in a cult, and you’re the one who is suffering.

            You used the word ‘disturb’, because you are disturbed inside. You know what I’m saying. You know it’s true. Trying to deny it just makes you look like a deranged cultist, ranting about sins and hellfire.

            Are you insane, or just brainwashed?

            If you’re insane, then I’m wasting my time talking to you.
            If you are only brainwashed, then you still have hope.

            You are in a cult, and you need help badly.

            Stop believing in all this hogwash. You look like a complete idiot when you believe in all this supernatural bogus.

          • sandraleesmith46

            No, to ALL of your assertions!

          • P0xi

            Your faith is weak. Otherwise you could answer me with honesty in your heart.

            If you weren’t wrong, you could easily answer me with an original answer.

            Saying no, or just repeating some bullshit cult-book verse will just make you look like more of a loony cultist.

            You’re wrong. Otherwise you could simply answer me honestly, without a single lie or reason to obscure the truth. How strange it is that you reveal you know the truth, but you are too afraid to face it.

            There is no god.

          • TROLL ALERT!!!

          • sandraleesmith46

            I did; YOU refused to accept my response.

          • Nebojsa

            Nice. To add some salt to the injury, vast majority of Christian core believes have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus, they are entirely based on BS spouted by Paul – a neurotic, narcissistic douchebag and a self-proclaimed apostle who never even met Jesus but merely claimed that he could talk to him in his own hallucinations. Yeah, seems totally legit.

          • Manheart

            Interesting comment and something I have long thought. Christianity would be a historical footnote if not for Saul/Paul. BTW, I’ve always considered Paul’s “thorn in his side” to be his own homosexuality. Who ever heard of an unmarried Pharisee of that time? Jewish fathers had three major responsibilities to their sons: teach them a trade, teach them Torah, and get them married. Paul’s dad couldn’t swing the latter, indicating, I think, that Paul must have been A MESS! Even his conversion involves an hallucination. Paul probably couldn’t get it up for women and hated himself for it. Anyhow, it ought to be called “Paulianity” because it’s much more to do with crazy Paul than Jesus.

          • Nebojsa

            I am certain that Paul being a Pharisee was a lie. That, and the whole thing about Pharisees persecuting Christians is just nonsense invented to serve the “former mortal enemy sees the light/truth and switches sides” narrative. Isn’t it funny how the alleged persecutions of Christians by the Pharisees completely stop the moment Paul converts and are never mentioned again?

          • Mary Baker Meier

            I don’t think Christianity would “be a historical footnote” regardless of Paul. There are records of Thomas (yes, Doubting Thomas) in India, spreading the Gospel. There are records of the other Apostles going to other parts of the world (as it was then) and spreading the Gospel. Jesus wasn’t married (and there is historical record of Jesus actually being alive), so did Joseph fail him? Was Jesus “A MESS”??? I don’t think so. Who do people who are not Christians want to be trolls on a Christian blogger’s page? I have no issue with you being a non-Christian, but I do with you being a troll about it. I don’t agree with all Matt says, but he makes no bones about his beliefs, so if you don’t like it and are unwilling to even read/listen with any semblance of grace, go away.

          • Manheart

            As you wish!

          • Manheart

            I said Paul was a mess!

          • Mary Baker Meier

            Actually, you said, “Jewish fathers had three major responsibilities to their sons: teach them a trade, teach them Torah, and get them married. Paul’s dad couldn’t swing the latter, indicating, I think, that Paul must have been A MESS!”
            By “the latter”, you were talking about Paul not being married and therefore, a mess. I extrapolated that you would apply the same reasoning to any male Jew of that era who was unmarried – therefore you would feel the same way about Jesus, who was crucified at 33 and never married, or even had sex that anyone is aware of. So, by further extrapolation, I would presume that you think Joseph did not do what he was supposed to as a father, Jesus was a homosexual, and also that Jesus was a mess.
            Am I incorrect in my logic?

          • Manheart

            Why didn’t you just ask me what I think about Jesus? Could have saved you all that extrapolating.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            You changed your post!! 😀
            Extrapolating is more fun. And my reasoning does make sense considering your comment. Also, your comment about Christianity being a footnote without Paul (along with calling it “Paulianity”) gives me some insight as to your opinion of Jesus. But, I’ll bite – So what do you think about Jesus?

          • Manheart

            I have answered you at length but Matt is reviewing my post. Perhaps because there are two links in it. Maybe he doesn’t allow that or chooses to check them first.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            Well that s a bummer. I do enjoy your posts, they seem well thought-out. I’m truly not trying to be a pain, but I haven’t seen any comment as to what you think of Jesus. Maybe I somehow missed the post, so I’ll go back and look. This is not a page I follow, but someone that I do follow occasionally shares these on FB and I sometimes read them.

            I am a Christian, obviously, and part of my “job” as a Christian is to try to bring people to Christ, but I’m not a fanatic about it; I think people have to make up their own minds about their beliefs and that takes time for most. I really don’t want to pressure people, but I imagine it comes across that way at times. I like hearing other people’s points of view, even if I don’t necessarily agree with them. It broadens your horizons if you are willing to learn about others, and I think it helps you become a better person. Constructive criticism is hard to hear, but I accept it as long as it isn’t just ranting at me because of my beliefs, etc. If someone wants to just be a troll and rant and criticize and refuse to even be partially constructive (this P0xi person, for example), I’ll sometimes goad them a little. Probably not the right thing to do, but… What can I say, I’m not perfect. Blessings to you! Hope to chat with you again sometime!

          • Manheart

            I think he was a mystic and an apocalypticist who preached that the end was coming where God would establish his perfect kingdom. In Mark he never claimed to be God, and never even claimed to be the son of God. I think he was probably single, though I don’t think it’s wise to extrapolate things about Jesus based on what the Bible doesn’t say. Some have argued that Jesus was probably married, since being married was the “normal” for Jewish men. It’s not being mentioned assumes Jesus’ marital status was not worth mentioning. If he had not been married, that would have been unusual enough to merit mention. But prophet types like John seem not to have been married. Maybe Jesus wasn’t.
            It’s also possible that Jesus wasn’t Joseph’s favorite. Maybe that’s why he wandered in the wilderness from time to time. Maybe his home life sucked. If Joseph knew Jesus wasn’t “his” maybe he favored his biological children more, and didn’t bother to find Jesus a wife, or maybe Jesus wasn’t interested, or maybe he had a wife and she just isn’t mentioned. Women tend to be mentioned in the gospels only when their presence makes a point or moves the story along.

            Paul, on the other hand, is different. He grew up in the middle of Jewish mainstream culture, a Pharisee, read Greek as well as Hebrew, and had all the advantages. He took it upon himself to persecute Jesus’ followers, and Paul seems not to have been well likes even among his own kind. He was single and in so being, was really flying into the wind of Pharisaic culture. I think Jesus’ being single is a point of mysticism and wonder, I think Paul being single is a sign of psychological factors.

            BTW, Jesus probably looked much more like this:
            http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a234/1282186/

            than this:
            https://twitter.com/all_about_jesus

            Half the Christians I know would cross the street to AVOID the first guy.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            I notice that you changed your original post ^ and added to it. I haven’t “come after” you. I asked you questions because I found your comment interesting. And no I’m curious as to how you “know Paul’s type”. He did call himself an apostle, with a small “a”, not a capital one. To me, Paul is at the forefront not necessarily because he put himself there, but because those who decided how the Bible was put together put him there. Maybe he was the best example in all the writings, or maybe they took different writings and combined them and attributed them to Paul – who knows. I just read and try to to good. Sometimes I succeed at the good part, sometimes not so much.

            As for my comment about you being a troll, that was it was how I interpreted what you wrote, just like you interpreted what I wrote as “coming after” you when that isn’t how it was intended. Sorry, I try to be careful with my words, but its easy to misunderstand the meaning on this type of commenting.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            Didn’t Paul go around preaching the Good News about Jesus and teach what Jesus taught?? I don’t know about any problems he may have had, but I believe the Bible. I have no reason not to, and, as the saying goes – you have to stand for something or you’ll fall for anything. I’ll stand with God.

          • Nebojsa

            Read my comment again. Paul NEVER MET Jesus. Never seen him. Ever. He merely claimed he could talk to Christ in his hallucinations, which means nothing (millions of people claimed they could talk to god/gods throughout history). He never received any theological training from anybody from Jerusalem, his theology came directly and entirely from his head. His theology is completely at odds with James, he spouted a bunch of things that Jesus from the gospels never said, he bickered with the Jerusalem church, claimed that they didn’t respect HIS “good news”, called the actual disciples of James and Peter “false brethren” because of theological differences, and was sent to the Temple by James to “cleanse” himself because of it. Absolutely nothing in the Bible indicates that Paul was actually preaching what Jesus taught. He was teaching his own theology, not Jesus’ words.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            I’ve never met Jesus face-to-face. Doesn’t mean I don’t follow Him or that I don’t sometimes “hear” Him. Unless you were wandering around the countryside with Paul, I’m not sure how you can possibly know what he saw or didn’t see, or what he made up or didn’t. Paul was a Pharisee, which means he had some training in Jewish theology, which was why he hated Christians. The Jews had Jesus crucified; the Romans simply carried out the job. Sounds like you hate Christians too. Paul changed, so there’s hope for you.

          • Nebojsa

            Just because you might hear some voices in your head does not mean they are coming from Jesus. I can compare Paul’s own writings to the gospels and see the discrepancies, I can compare his own writings to Acts and see the discrepancies, I can compare his claims or claims of the author of the Acts to records of secular writers of the time and see the discrepancies. I do not know what he saw but I can to a bigger or lesser extent recognize nonsense. You could as well, but you do not want to. It simply feels too nice and comforting to believe that all of it is true.
            How do you know he was a Pharisee? He said so? Oh, so convincing! Pharisees hated Christians? So why did the Pharisees raise a riot and got a Sadducee who ordered the killing of James literally booted? The Jews stoned people to death, they did not crucify anyone. Romans did. Jewish priests had ZERO authority to order Roman officials around. Especially a murderous maniac like Pilate. Learn some actual history, not artificial history from the bible’s parallel universe.
            The fact that NOT A SINGLE Jewish, Roman or even early Christian writer has even heard of the “super-apostle” who was running around converting masses and having Odysseus like adventures, until Marcion introduced his letters in the mid 2nd century, should at least raise some suspicion about the whole thing in every person capable of some degree of critical thinking.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            You seem angry. And you apparently are not a Christian. So why follow a Christian blogger unless you want to be a troll? Does it hurt you that I believe in Jesus, Go, the Holy Spirit, and the Bible? Is it harming you in some way?? I believe what I believe, and my faith is stronger than your derision. Go away if you don’t like the posts or the opinions, or don’t. Do what you want, say what you want – you will not hurt my faith. I’ve studied history, and I still have my faith. Sad that you have none.

          • Kate Pamplin

            You need to read Acts. Paul was in every way a Jew, trained to understand the Law and all its precepts. I have a love-hate relationship with Paul, but when I dig my heels in and study what Paul is saying, he’s been right on in alignment with scripture and Jesus.

          • Nebojsa

            Why Acts? Paul didn’t write Acts, and whoever did tried really hard to shore up his credibility by making up loads of fantasy nonsense about him.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            Christianity isn’t a cult and we aren’t robots. If we were, it would be so easy to always do the right thing and follow Jesus. We’re human and we make mistakes, but we are forgiven. I would love for all people to become Christians and be saved, but it isn’t my decision to make – it is a decision each person must make for themselves. The beautiful thing is that you can make it on your deathbed and Jesus will still forgive you.
            You are the one who sounds foolish. You haven’t yet stated what you believe, but the more I read your posts, the more I believe you are an evil person who is attempting to sway others to your evil. God is not “supernatural” nor “bogus”. He IS.
            God is the reason we are all here. Even if you follow the Big Bang theory – who created the stuff to go “BANG”??? Can’t answer it because you don’t have an answer, but it s silly to believe there’s all this stuff floating around that just “happened” to create people, and animals, and trees, and reptiles, and birds, and so forth. SOMEONE had to do it.
            So, what do YOU believe??

          • P0xi

            God doesn’t exist.

            What made “god”?

            You think “someone had to do it”, regarding everything else, but “god” just gets a magic free pass because you’re too brainwashed to really question it? Absolutely not.

            You’re playing a fool. You look like you’re in a cult, and you look like a robot, just repeating the same bullshit every other cultist here believes.

            Who created god?

            “SOMEONE had to do it”, right? That’s what you said. You better have an answer, and that answer better be “A more powerful god”, or else you’ve proven the last thing you said wrong.

            There is no god, because your logic here is shit, and you will never be able to prove your bullshit claims, because everything you’re saying is ancient mythology and none of it is true.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            I notice you didn’t answer my question, just spewed more programmed words at me. Didn’t you just state in an earlier comment, “I only seek righteous words and laws that provide love and joy to all people.”

            What righteous words are you saying? The ones that you believe? Is there no room for the belief of others? Christians love – that’s one of our basic tenants. You are as evil as the Serpent in the Garden – trying to tempt people to do your bidding. I have my faith and it is stronger than anything you can say. Keep trying, but you’ll keep losing.

          • “The fool hath said in his heart, ‘There is no God’. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.” Psalms 14:1
            Proverbs 26:1-12

          • BrightAngel

            All of us have been shaped by what we are taught and experience. How did you come to the conclusions and arguments you are making? Not here to attack you. Just to discuss. We are all on a journey. I only ask because I have a very good friend who is a self declared Atheist and I am a devout believer. We have the best discussions and actually it has caused me to look deeper into my faith. I think trying to understand each other goes a long way. Looking forward to your response.

          • P0xi

            I had once wanted to become a priest, pastor, or missionary.

            I was once very devout, but I had studied documents of the church, and realized it was deliberately crafted to spread to people for political and social reasons. It was a tool to control people.

            The very concept of God was invented, and embellished. Yahweh was once a god among many gods.

            He was like Hermes, or Thor, or Thoth. Just another god out of a lot of them. One god out of a pantheon.

            But he was focused on, and said to be the only god. It was taught to children, and eventually mutated into a cult that worships a singular god, or three gods in a trinity, and the people deepest within the cult pretend to drink blood and eat god/human flesh in order to attain immortality after they die.

            The strict rules are fabricated to control people.

            Those within the cult cannot see it.

            It is why Muslims do not understand that they are in a cult.

            It is Scientologists do not understand that they are in a cult.

            And it is why Christians cannot understand that they are in a cult, and none of it is true.

            There is no god, no heaven, no hell. We are evolved animals on a rock in space, orbiting a star.
            Our planet is akin to an electron orbiting an atom, but we orbit a star, and that star is spinning within a galaxy. Our galaxy may also be orbiting something larger.

            It is purely natural. There are no supernatural deities or supernatural rules.

          • Fonella O’Neal

            Truly, I believe you’re just baiting people in this group. It’s not clear why you even read the article but to cause dissension. I’m thankful to be grounded, soundly, in God’s word and walk with the Holy Spirit so as NOT to be drawn to the babblings of yourself.

          • Kate Pamplin

            I’ll bite. I don’t obey like a robot. It takes a lot of time, effort, reading, grappling, to understand God’s Will. It doesn’t come easy to anybody because we all have been tainted by this world. No, I am not righteous because I follow rules: I am righteous because Jesus made me so, and through Him God extends His Grace to make those who were unclean now clean. I do not have any desire to convert people, because it is not I who converts, but the Holy Spirit. We are but workers in His vineyard.

          • P0xi

            Just replace the word “God” with “Satan” and you’ll understand how I feel right now.

            You are in a cult, and every word you spoke was a lie that was told to you.
            You are not the one lying. You were the one who was lied to.

            You are in a cult, and it’s absolutely terrifying to see you lose your mind like this.

            Don’t you remember a time when you could be free in the forest and meadow, and just do what you wanted, without having to think about “planting seeds” inside of people’s brains?

            Stop planting brain seeds, you creepy cultist, and start enjoying real life.

            Like seriously, you’re terrifying. Are you from some horror movie or something? I just imagine you like some zombie cultist or something, thinking you’re doing the right thing, but actually just trying to create more cultists.

            Read this article again.

            Remember the topic here: “Stop being friends with people who are friends with gay people.”

            This author is literally a Nazi, and if he was living in Nazi Germany back in those days, he would be murdering gays, Jews, Gypsies, and whoever else his religion and culture told him to murder.

        • Kate Pamplin

          We are dogs.

        • Kate Pamplin

          It’s a religion for sheep, not goats.

      • P0xi is another TROLL!!!

        • sandraleesmith46

          Or a homosexual or both!

    • BumpyRoadsahead

      Yet Christ taught “go & sin no more”. Just because we are all sinners & guilty of sin is no license to accept or condone sin. We are told have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, rather expose them & evil company corrupts good morals. We are to admonish with love but still reprove & correct sin.

  • Jason Adam

    Thank you for sharing your story and for giving this wonderful perspective. I hadn’t looked at this issue in quite this light, and I appreciate your unique perspective into this. God bless you as you work to further His kingdom in this regard.

  • Amy

    I don’t disagree with what the article said, but when it’s your own son, do you break fellowship with him?

    • fcb

      Your son will always be your son and your love for him should always be unconditional as is the love from Our Father in Heaven. But ask yourself, does God condone any sin in our lives? As a believer we all sin and the Holy Spirit brings conviction to our sin and we must confess and repent of our sin no matter how often we sin. Pray for your son always, ask the Holy Spirit to convict his heart if he is a believer, if he is not a believer pray for the Lord to save him and bring him to repentance. Do not condone his sin or anyone’s sin, always point them to the Cross. Keep loving your son as The Lord Loves Us even in our sinful state, but as believers we do NOT and SHOULD NOT be content living in our sinful state, but live for the LORD.

      • Amy

        Thank you for your comments. He is a believer and went to a Bible college and led worship in our church where our whole family is very active. I give “pray without ceasing” a new meaning where my son is concerned! He knows the truth. I keep believing that the Truth will set him free!

    • No. That is the last thing your son needs (I know). He needs your love and support. This doesn’t mean that you endorse his lifestyle, and you can not pray the gay away. It is sin nature. One of the hardest things I ever had to do was tell my father that I was SSA (gay). He totally disarmed all the rage and anger I had saved up for him, by telling me he loved me anyway. Things are not perfect between us, but they never are between a parent and a child. But what a child need to hear most, more than anything else is ‘I love you’.

      • Amy

        Thank you. He knows where we stand and the boundaries we’ve set in our home. He also knows that we love him unconditionally.

        • Good! It doesn’t mean you have to give in to what he wants (would you in your right mind give a two year old all the sweet he wants?) But there will come a day when your child will tell you that you are right (I was about 30 when I figured out that my father was correct). Being conflicted about homosexuality and God is difficult at best. If it helps let me tell you what the Holy Spirit told me: God didn’t command me to be straight; to want to be so is coveting what a straight man has. God just wants us to love Him and keep His commandments, even if they make us uncomfortable at times. So I am SSA (gay). It doesn’t mean I love God less, but as our Father, He sets up rules for us to follow, the same ones he set up for everybody. One of the great lies of the LGBT community (and there are so many) is that leaders of Christians and churches are against us. This isn’t true. It took a massive stroke for me to figure this out.

          Sending you a link to my blog…read it in its entirety.

          https://brokenbutredeemedblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/14/introduction/

          • Marcy Orth Ross

            Wonderfully written blog!! I just read the whole thing. Thank you!

          • Amy

            Thank you I’ll check it out.

            My blog is http://www.prayandlove2life.weebly.com if you’d care to check it out. My name is Elizabeth there for privacy reasons.

          • Thank you for this. I believe that we are entering in to a new era, as so many people like me were taught only the excessiveness of God’s wrath and nothing of forgivness. One thing, probably the most important, is to not live in judgement of others; I also learned about forgiveness, because how can straights forgive me when I can’t forgive them.

          • Amy

            Very true!

  • fcb

    Matt, your message is right on and I for one am thankful to the Lord that you stay true to God’s Word and preach it as it is written without compromise even when it hurts. Discipline is what a Disciple of The Lord has to do first in our lives, then pray for and share the truth to those around us. We all must remember the road to life is a hard, narrow road. I read just recently where Franklin Graham shared a story that his mother Ruth shared with him about the two roads in life, the wide easy road and the narrow hard road. Franklin always felt that the wide road was like a large freeway everything moving fast and easy and at high speed, but the narrow road was a winding, hard and slow road. His mother told him she believed that the narrow road was right in the middle of the wide road but we walk on it in the opposite direction of everyone on the wide road. It dawned on me that is such a great way to see that, all those on the wide road fleeing past us look at us like, what’s wrong with you people running opposite everyone else, don’t you see your going against the grain, against the majority of us. Let us keep walking on the narrow road and please keep preaching the truth.

    • Sandi Luckins

      nice analogy

    • P0xi

      If words in the Bible seem evil to you, perhaps they are evil?

      Don’t doubt your heart so easily.

      When it comes down to it, it’s more likely that the Bible is wrong, and that your heart is right.
      God designed your heart. Humans designed the Bible.

      I think listening to your heart will always trump dusty old books. If you disagree, I don’t think you’ll find a single passage in your Bible that will convince me. I only seek righteous words and laws that provide love and joy to all people.

      The Bible seems to make enemies of the innocent, and friends with the guilty.
      I wonder why that is.

      • fcb

        “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.” Jeremiah 17:9-10

        If anyone of us live our lives as an unregenerate man, the statement quoted above is were we live until we die. Only God can give us a heart of flesh as we come to receive His Son Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord. Jesus mentioned so many times that those who rejected him had hearts of stone and only those who believe will have softened hearts of flesh. To live by our unregenerate hearts as a source to listen to and to reject God’s word will lead only to death, both physically and more importantly spiritually. Rethink what you believe..

      • TROLL ALERT!!!

        • Jossie

          He’s/she’s searching…

        • DebraBrunsberg

          In this case, probably not so much a troll as someone who themselves lives a greatly sinful life. When one follows the enemy (knowingly or not) they will always try to get others to walk away from the Lord. Pray for them. Their choice now will also determine their eternity.

      • Nearly Over

        You make the unfounded assumption that some people are innocent.

        • P0xi

          All people are innocent.

          There is no such thing as sin or evil.

          The only thing that you know is your mortal perception of how events play out, and how you judge people for their actions.

          • Kate Pamplin

            Wow, glad to know that Hitler was innocent. Or Stalin. Or Saddam Hussein. Or ___. Yeah, totally innocent…

          • P0xi

            Hitler was following the advice of Martin Luther.

            Martin Luther was the guy who split from Catholicism, into Luthernism and Protestantism. He wrote a book called “On the Jews, and their lies.”

            He wrote about “Locking Jews in their synagogues and burning them alive.”

            Hitler, Luther, Stalin, and Hussein all thought they were doing the right thing, just like everyone here does too. Even I think I’m right.

            That’s why I really don’t consider people guilty. Even the author here says “Don’t be friends with gay people or people who don’t mind gay people.” Is that evil? Maybe. He doesn’t think so though, and even though I think that such an idea is very sad, it’s not my place to judge.

            I mean, how can I blame him? It’s not his fault he got brainwashed into a cult. I judge not.

            I simply do not judge, so I do not believe in sin or evil. Those words mean nothing to me, because if I thought they did, I’d start judging people.

            It’s easy to judge dead people, like Hitler or Stalin, but those guys are politicians who made war and tried to control society.

            In real life, we don’t need to judge politicians each day. Instead, I notice people judge each other. Normal people call each other evil.

            I’m sure my gay neighbor Dave has a LOT of sweaty gay sex.

            But he’s never killed a Jew in his life. Or anyone. Ever.

            I mean, you might call gay Dave evil, and want to murder him, or at least hope he goes to hell. But honestly, are you insane?

            Leave gay Dave alone. Do not judge.

            In your mind, cancel out good and evil. Americans don’t have violent revolutions, not against Obama, and not against Trump, so who cares about judging people if the most you’ll do is just make some gay dude sad.

            What a pathetic thing to do, all in the name of “righteousness.”

          • ldwaddell

            You are correct that you are a hypocritical person with a lot of hate and anger. You pronounce others evil or wrong while proclaiming there is no evil. If there is no evil then it matters not what I believe or preach because it just is.
            You judge others while telling them not to judge you. Your feelings override reasonable thought, and you proclaim that chocolate is better than strawberry, demanding that everyone must acquiesce to your preferences.

          • P0xi

            Where does hate or anger come from?

            Passion.

            Only passion within me. Burning, hateful passion for what this sick world has become.

            Brainwashed fools in cults, babbling their cult-speak.
            Moronic liberals forcing their stupid views upon people.

            And then there’s me. Where do I turn, when there’s madness in every direction?

          • I recommend you don’t respond to P0xi. This person is just a troll (like Regan DuCasse), just here to foment trouble.

          • Steve Dunn

            There is nothing here that says don’t be friends with gay people and the bible doesn’t teach that. It says do not eat or associate with someone who says they are a brother (given their life to Christ) but enters in sexual immorality.
            The bible on the contrary commands us to reach out to a broken world in love. Hate the sin but show love to the sinner.

          • P0xi

            You are deluded.

            Do you know what happens when Christians see a gay person?

            Insults. Ridicule. Have you ever been to school?
            Do you think “faggot” is an insult for a reason?

            People hate gay people, no matter your justifications for not hating them.

            You are a snake that tells me that Christians are nice people, when I have seen gay people murdered for being gay, because the Bible tells Christians to murder gay people and witches.

          • ldwaddell

            So there is no evil? Then I suggest that there is no good. All behavior just is, nothing you do is worthy of praise or accolades since you are only responding to your environment and DNA. No one is able to say what good or evil is if we nothing but matter and matter has no soul, no mind it just is.
            I doubt you live consistently with your beliefs. If someone broke into your home to kill and steal and maime, you would act as though they were evil.

          • P0xi

            Look around you at how humans act.

            We all disagree on what is evil and what is good.

            It is act of believing in an all powerful deity, and then claiming this deity knows what good and evil is, that is wrong.

            The simple truth is that each person looks at a thing and calls it either good, or they call it neutral, or they call it evil. I do as well.

            It is a difference between subjectivity and objectivity. This objective good/evil does not exist, as you said.

            But each person decides for their self what good and evil is, and they do, just as I do, and as you do.

          • Faye Whitaker

            So if someone kills your child, spouse, parent, that is not evil REALLY!! There most certainly is evil, how about the innocent children killed in the streets everyday, you say that is not evil. How about the sex trafficking of children, the children slaughtered in abortion clinics. And all of the above is sin.

          • P0xi

            Sin and evil do not exist.

            Just as we slaughter baby cows for veal, and enslave their mothers and forcefully breed them, steal their milk, and keep them in cages, or bound by fences, and call that “not evil”, I think someone else can justify killing people.

            It is up to you to look at a thing and call it evil, or look at a thing and call it good.

            All I ask of you is to realize that objective good and evil do not exist. The stars and planets do not care.

            It’s all in your head and in your heart. You need to make a decision, and that decision can only apply to you.

            Don’t get bound by your emotions or by illogic. Realize that this world is far bigger than just your views.

            War has always happened between humans and animals, and always will. I call it evil.

            Some call it good.

            But if you don’t choose for yourself, then you’re brainwashed.

          • Faye Whitaker

            Your are a very disturbed person and your ideas themselves are evil. I can see now why your picture is what it is. It fits. The idea that people were killed for being gay is garbage that is pushed by the LGBTQrstuv crowd to push a narrative. Yes it has happened but not because they were gay and it was proven so however that narrative does not fit the agenda. No real Christian hates a homosexual however we do hate the sin that will end up with their destruction. We not only hate that sin but the sexual immorality that pervades society today and is called good. It’s not good to call for the destruction of anyone. God will work with them until their dying breath in hopes of their repentance but if not then they choose. You have a great day.

          • P0xi

            You are suffering from delusional conspiracy theories, and you are in a cult.

            You view me as disturbed, but the truth is that you are the one who is disturbed.
            The only difference is that your view is a common view, while mine is burned away as heresy.

            If it was like the old days, you’d burn me as a heretic, just as you’d burn faggots. Where do you think that word comes from? Have you even done research before spewing your hateful cult-babble?

            Do you think I can take you seriously when you’re talking about supernatural magic and folk lore beliefs?

          • Steve Dunn

            Hard to deny the existence of miracles and demonic activity if you study history, things that have happened that man Is not capable of.

          • P0xi

            No there’s not.

            I’ve studied history, and all events happened without magic or demons.

            Wait, did you say demons? Are you literally insane?
            You are in a cult. Everything you believe is a lie, because demons are not real.

            Do you believe in fairies and goblins too? I mean, just how mangled has your mind become?
            Are you seriously telling me that you believe in magic, demons, wizards, and all that other hogwash?

            People laugh at you for this, you stupid person.

      • BumpyRoadsahead

        Only a fool says in his heart there is no God. If there is a God, then you better do what He says. The choice to go to hell is a stupid one but yea most choose it.

        • P0xi

          You’re right. Only a fool says in their heart that there is no god.

          But the wise person says it openly: There is no god.

          I will not allow my heart to be kept silent. There is no god, and the entire thing is a cult.

          You are in a cult, and that’s why you believe cult words over your heart.

          My heart does not lie to me. My heart is true and pure, and I am in no cult.

          I see the truth. I see the despair. I see the beauty.

          But there is no god.

          • Stephen M. Zumbo

            How can you know that there is no God? You would have to have infinite knowledge of the universe to know that. You would have to be God Himself. You yourself are in a cult, actually, the cult of worshipping yourself. May you awaken to the truth before it is too late. Right now you are believing and speaking lies from Satan, the father of Lies. May God have mercy on you.

          • TROLL ALERT!!!!

          • TROLL ALERT!!! TROLL RIGHT HERE!!! TROLL!!!!
            DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS PERSON!!! THIS PERSON IS NOTHING BUT A TROLL!!
            TROLL ALERT!!!

          • P0xi

            Truth scares you, doesn’t it?

            There is no god.

          • Psalms 14:1
            Proverbs 26:1-12

      • Mary Baker Meier

        You sound like Satan in the Garden of Eden. Spinning words that sound so lovely, but with an evil intent behind them.

        • P0xi

          The only evil intent here is trying to brainwash people into your cult.

          Truth will always sound more lovely than a lie.

          There is no god, and you are in a cult.

          You are the wicked liar here, spreading your mythology to children, your family, and neighbors, and misleading people so they join your cult.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            Its so interesting that you spew the same words over and over. I think you are so lost in sin – and I think you know it but don’t dare admit it, even to yourself. Your comment about brainwashing is proof that you have some fear of what I say.
            Someday you will learn that you are spreading lies. I will follow God until my death, as will my family and friends. Prayers that one day you will join us in Heaven.

          • P0xi

            Why do you follow God?

            Why not prove it to me? Prove that God is real.

            Instead, I will prove that god is not real. Have you ever seen a child die?

            Not just in pictures or in your head, but in real life, have you ever seen a child die in front of you?
            Not a kid at a hospital, where the kid knows it’s gonna happen, but a healthy child, torn apart by something terrible.

            If you’ve ever seen a mangled child, bleeding to death, screaming in pain, trying to put their intestines back inside their body, you’d understand that there is no god.

            The intestines fall out of the child’s body, and their twitching limbs begin to go pale as their blood pours out.
            They beg. “I don’t want to die.”

            They keep begging, and they know there’s no heaven waiting. Nothing is waiting, and that’s why they die slowly, always begging for life. Pure, innocent children know the truth about death. They always know what death is, and that’s why they fear it. They slowly lose too much blood, and their brain stops working. Not all at once, but slowly.

            They lose their speech first. Then they can no longer move, except their eyes. Terror.

            Only fear. Fear, because death is not a path to heaven or hell.

            Death is the absolute end, and the child with a pure heart knows the truth, and that’s why they fear.

            It’s why religious people make up heaven and hell. “Don’t worry kid, you’ll be alive again soon! Hahah, just wait until you’re in heaven. I bet you’ll have the shiniest harp!”

            Lies.

            Pure lies. Only the truth can be this harsh. Lies are pretty. Lies are beautiful and lovely.

            Lies let the child die happy. Is it bad to lie to a child?

            Of course not. I’ve seen many children die, and you know what I tell them? “Don’t worry kid, it’ll be ok. You’ll be fine. Smile, and when you wake up, things will be better.”

            It’s a lie I tell them, but only because they’re about to die. They don’t have a chance.

            But to tell that lie to YOU, a healthy person? That’s what religion does.

            Do you have any idea what it’s like to be the one who has to lie to a dying child?

            I know what it’s like to lie to a child, and tell them things will be fine, even though I know they won’t be.

            I know what it’s like to lie to a child, and that’s how I know heaven is not real, and that there is no god.

            But when you’re told that heaven exists, and you have to obey rules, and believe in a made up god to get there, otherwise you actually get TORTURED or something horrible when you die, don’t you understand that you’re being manipulated?

            You’re brainwashed to the core.

            I can see it clear as day. It’s only you, the one deep inside the cult who can’t, because you think it’s true.

            But once you learn the real truth, the truth that doesn’t sound so pretty, that’s when you realize you’ve been wrong the entire time.

            God isn’t real, and there is no heaven.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            I have noticed that you STILL haven’t answered my question to you. WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE – OR BELIEVE IN??? You try to ridicule others and spew hatred at those who post on this page, especially those who answer your questions, but not to your liking – but you cannot answer a simple question.

          • P0xi

            I don’t believe things.

            That’s why I can see that this is a cult, and that all religions are cults. Everything you believe is made up nonsense.

            If you saw a person going to a strange building filled with odd symbols, and they did bizarre things like pretend to drink blood, or eat human flesh, and they knelt before an altar and said “Dear _____, I am but a mortal, but I ask for your power, and in return, I will give you faith and worship.”

            If that _____ wasn’t Jesus, you’d think it’s a cult. If _____ was Satan, Vishnu, Allah, Jordan, Samara, or any other name, you’d think it’s a cult.

            But to me, ANY name in ____ is absurd. It’s a cult.

            “Ra, give me strength!”
            “Satan, give me strength!”
            “Allah, give me strength!”
            “Zeus, give me strength!”
            “Jesus, give me strength!”
            “Odin, give me strength!”
            “Elyon, give me strength!”

            See? They all look the same.

            Only the names are different, and that’s how I know you’re in a cult.

          • Mary Baker Meier

            So, I read your response about watching children die, and this one. You must have had a some very rough times and that’s a sad thing to live with. But… Why do you want to troll this page?? Do you just get some fun out of it? If you don’t believe in anything, fine, that’s your right, but why be so hateful to others who choose to believe in God?? What do you care? If you want to truly be involved and learn an understand why others believe how they do, even if you don’t hold the same beliefs, then do that. If you can’t do that, then go away.

          • TROLL ALERT!!! TROLL RIGHT HERE!!! TROLL!!!!
            DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS PERSON!!! THIS PERSON IS NOTHING BUT A TROLL!!!
            TROLL ALERT!!

      • Anthony Barber

        Oh gimme a break. Our hearts are deceitful. The Bible says it. Jeremiah 17.

        • P0xi

          It is the Bible that lies.

          Your heart will never lie to you.

          Never.

          Don’t be a fool, and let mere words overrule your heart.

          You already know the truth. There is no god, and the Bible is completely bullshit.
          There is no heaven and no hell.
          Jesus was just a man, and nothing more.

          And so are you, and that’s why mere words cannot ever overrule the truest feelings in your heart.

          • Kate Pamplin

            Actually, yes your heart can fool you. Have you ever been in a situation where hindsight says “wow, that was stupid. What was I thinking?” Answer: you weren’t. Your heart was deceiving you.

          • P0xi

            No.

            Your heart NEVER deceives you.

            You are talking about your brain or hormones deceiving you.

            A brain has a quick little thought, like “I’ll do something stupid!”

            Your heart knew the truth the entire time. People just forget to feel with their heart, and think with their brain.

            They try to feel with their brain instead, then they make mistakes.

            Or worse, they feel and think based on an ancient book written by primitive desert tribal people.
            Religion cancels out both your heart and your brain, and replaces it with made up morality and made up behaviors.

            You must not only think for yourself, but feel for yourself.

            No more magic holy books. Doesn’t work for Islam, doesn’t work for Hinduism, and it doesn’t work for Christianity, because all it does is turn people against each other.

            The truth is the truth. Not god.

          • Your heart sure has deceived you.

          • P0xi

            I hope the authorities take you away quickly.

            You are a very terrible, unfriendly person in my eyes.
            My heart feels dark feelings when you type things.

          • ldwaddell

            He who makes all judgements based on feelings will soon be shown a fool.

          • ldwaddell

            So when the prescription bottle says one pill every six hours, you take four every two hours because you feel if one is good more will be better?

          • P0xi

            That is your folly, for feeling with your brain, instead of your heart.

            You damned fool.

            Think with your brain. Feel with your heart.

            Is this so hard? Or perhaps you are heartless, and do not know how to feel properly.

            If you are brainwashed into a cult, it would not surprise me that you cannot comprehend my meaning here.

      • God did not sesign your conscience, you did by the books you read and the friends you keep. Read immoral books, keep immoral friends, and your conscience will be immoral

        • P0xi

          Indeed, and that’s why Christianity is dangerous.

          Look at the author. He says, ” I have arrived at the conclusion
          that I cannot extend the hand of fellowship to a gay-affirming
          person—nor can I affirm his or her salvation.”

          Look at him making enemies of the innocent.

          Doesn’t he have bigger problems? Like political corruption? Doesn’t war bother him more than gay Dave having gay sex? Is he going to make enemies by shunning gay people, instead of shunning cruel, mean people who hurt others?

          I mean, is this what you will do with your life?

          “RIP Theodore Seeber: He had a long life, and did many great things, such as hate the few gay people he ever met, and made enemies of completely harmless people.”

          • What makes you think homosexuality is innocent? From my point of view it is culture-destroying insanity at best, and horrid abuse at worst. Neither can be described as innocent, nor can the crime of lying about homosexuality for political reasons like the APA does in the DSM-V be considered innocent. Recreational sex replacing procreative sex is treason against the species on an evolutionary scale, so no, this is demonizing the guilty, not the innocent.

          • P0xi

            How many gay people do you even know? I mean, seriously, do you think that gay people are actually that plentiful? I know maybe TWO gay people. They live in my apartment building, down the hallway.

            And they adopted a homeless child.

            I also know a Christian, and he bullies both the child and the two gay people.

            The Christian, who has a little cross and fish on his door, he bullies a child, just for having gay parents.

            Yes, it is the Christian who is the aggressor, the Christian is the one making enemies of innocent people who helped out an orphan, and it’s the Christian right now, you, telling me that innocent people are guilty.

            Do you even know what a real crime is? Do you even know what theft, rape, assault, murder are? Have you ever heard of lying, psychological manipulation, abuse, deceiving, or fraud? Those make a person guilty.

            Being gay is not a crime. Don’t be delusional. Are you a Nazi? Nazis thought that gay people were as bad as Jews, and for the same reason. I mean, I don’t like to just call a person on the internet a Nazi, but in this case, could it be true?

            You might not call yourself a Nazi, but if you believe the same things Hitler did, such as that gay people are bad or guilty, then you must look at your heart for a moment, instead of a Bible or some guy’s blog.

            I’m a proud American, and I believe in freedom, and I believe that only REAL crime makes a person guilty.

            Still, let’s do it your way. Let’s bring Hitler to America, and have him point to gay people and say “Guilty.”

            What happens to the child if you get your way, and gay people have to die for their crime of being gay? Homeless again? You’d make a child go homeless?

            Ok then. Sorry Timmy, it’s the street for you. No more food.

            Your parents got gassed, just like President Hitler wanted, and now you’re homeless.
            Yay for Jesus!

            It’s not like straight people adopt children very often. Straight people HAVE children, and then either abandon them, or they don’t. If straight people abandon their child, then thank goodness for innocent gay people.

            Most people are straight. I am. You are. EVERYONE is.

            Except like 5% or less of the population.

            95% of the population wants to have children the straight way.

            You are being paranoid, or worse, lied to by religiously motivated bloggers who use fear mongering to control your mind, and make you think delusional things about people. “culture-destroying insanity”, I mean, gay people have been around since forever, and clearly culture is just fine.

            You date women. You have a child. You promote the TRUE culture of America, which is freedom, respect, and the pursuit of happiness.

            Let gay people date gay people.

            Of course, if you think that there’s anything fishy going on with the DSM-V, I think the real fishy thing is making it so that 20% of the adult population in the USA has a mental illness. That seems a lot more fishy than anything to do with gay people, who are still below 5%.

          • Enough to know that they are mentally derranged. Their wish to destroy heteronormative society over their private lust, and their inability to accept reasonable comoromise, is proof of their insanity. The secret that most homosexuality starts in pederasty, is al also quite troubling. I have never met one who was not abused, and who now seeks to perpetuate thar abuse on others.

          • P0xi

            So you suffer from paranoid delusions, eh?

            You need a walk through a beautiful forest or meadow, to get your mind off whatever the media or random bloggers on the internet tell you.

          • It is my experiences with homosexuals in real life, after 2004 when I went from afirming ally to evil bigot overnight without changing anything at all. I am still for the separation of religious marriage and civil unions, the compromise that makes all political issues with homosexuality disappear.

          • P0xi

            Forcing churches or businesses to do business with people is wrong.

            Forcing people to do things is wrong.

            However, to forbid a thing is equally wrong.

            The only right answer is freedom. Let each person and organization do as they desire.

          • So I can murder you and take all your stuff and you’ll be fine with it? After all, under total freedom, that choice is my right.

          • P0xi

            Of course you can try to murder me and take my stuff. But it would be you that is fine with it.
            You cannot choose my emotions. That’s my choice.

            As for me, if you tried to murder me, I would also have total freedom to defend myself.

            Now we have a Mexican standoff. Either you can lose your desire to murder people and take their possessions, or you can try, and see who wins the fight. Beware. I may have family and friends willing to defend me, which could make your fight more difficult, not to mention, I am not a weak person.

            I would crush you, if you dared attack first.

            However, I think that under total freedom, we are also both free to just walk away as friends, and not steal or murder anyone at all.

            Is your heart so wicked that you’d just murder people and steal their things if you had the freedom to?

            Goodness. I have no such desire. I would rather spend my life doing worthy things, like helping people, and building things, and creating art. If I had total freedom, I’d do interesting things with my life.

            It’s only you that utters words like “I can murder you and take all your stuff.”

            I don’t know what is wrong with your brain that you think freedom means you are commanded to murder and steal. You can, but you don’t have to. Even now, you are literally free to walk away from your computer, come over to my house, and then try to kill me. But why?

            I would use freedom to do noble, honorable things, because I also have the freedom to have honor and respect for my dignity.

            I’m very sad that you don’t.

            You are free to try to murder me. Go for it.
            However, I am not going to simply let you kill me. I will fight back, to defend myself.

            Otherwise, I offer you friendship if you don’t wish to murder me.

          • I have no way to judge whether your friendship would be good or evil, because you have taken away the philosophical ability to discern wicked from good. You said:
            “Forcing churches or businesses to do business with people is wrong.

            Forcing people to do things is wrong.

            However, to forbid a thing is equally wrong.”

            This is the problem with absolute moral relativism. How do you know murdering people is evil? After all, you’re saying God’s rules don’t count, therefore there are no rules.

            Wickedness can’t be judged without rules to determine what is wicked and what is not. What are noble, honorable things to you? How do you know that for me, murder and stealing is NOT noble and honorable?

            If there is no God, there is no good, and no evil.

          • Nebojsa

            “This is the problem with absolute moral relativism. How do you know
            murdering people is evil? After all, you’re saying God’s rules don’t
            count, therefore there are no rules.”
            The problem you have with moral relativism comes from the fact that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND it. I know murdering is evil/wrong from a rational consideration of the consequences of my actions. That is where I get my morals from. I get them from understanding that my actions have an impact on other people just as their actions have an impact on me, and if we are going to live cooperatively and share space my freedom to swing my arm ends at their nose. It is that simple. I do not need a disgusting immoral book written by extremely xenophobic, genocidal, primitive desert dwellers from the bronze age who thought murdering, raping and enslaving people of different religions was perfectly moral to tell me that.
            If fear of divine judgment is the only thing keeping you moral you are, at best, a dangerous psychopath on a leash.

          • ” I know murdering is evil/wrong from a rational consideration of the consequences of my actions. ”

            There can be no rational consideration of anything, because all judgement, including rational judgement, is wrong under absolute moral relativism.

          • P0xi

            Yeah, that’s what I’m trying to say.

            You would have to talk to me, and get to know me if you wanted to be friends.

            The offer of friendship is only the first step. From there, we’d need to try to understand each other, and have conversation.

            We need to form our own rules. That’s already what happens.

            There is no god. Someone just made up a bunch of rules. Moses went up to a mountain, carved rules into a piece of stone, and then told people those are the rules. The people didn’t like them, so he went up again and made more rules, and that time, it worked. People believed him. No god. Just a guy carving rules into a stone.

            That’s why there are two sets of commandments, but the first was destroyed. The second time, the rules were different for some reason. You think a god just changed its mind? You’ve read the Bible, right?

            You’d better not be one of those stupid Christians who hasn’t read the Bible from page 1 to the very end, reading every single page, and not spread out over a year, but all within a week, so you can keep track of the details.

            Don’t be naive. Moses just made them up himself because he was a charismatic cult leader.

            All rules are made up no matter what.

            So that means it’s up to you to choose good rules. If you don’t choose them, then that’s your problem.
            Are you saying you will steal?

            If you are, then I don’t want to be your friend, and no one else will either.

            How will you get a job if you steal from people and kill them?
            How will you create a family if people know that you’re a thief?
            If you just lie to people, and then hurt them, what do you think will happen to you once people find out?

            You will find reasons to do the right thing.

          • I have no way to judge, with your statement that all judgement is wrong, whether to even believe your offer of friendship. I have been burned by liars before, and with no ethics or morals possible (because no judgement) I have no reason to understand you or to have a conversation with you.

          • P0xi

            It is your choice to make an enemy of me then.

            I offered friendship, and you rejected it, telling me you’d murder me and steal my possessions.

            I spoke only of peace and benevolence, and you spoke of violence and hatred.

            You made that choice. If there is a god, he watched every word you just said.

            He watched you type each and every word, and he saw your desire for violence, your desire to steal, your desire to cast away my offer for friendship. And why?

            Because we disagree on morality? You are making a very tragic mistake here.

          • You offered moral relativism, not friendship. I have no idea what a moral relativist might mean by the word “friendship”. For that matter- I have no idea of what you might think the word “water” means- for all I know, that’s your word for what I call a bullet, and you shot that homeless man.

            If you are right, there is no God and he’s not watching me type. If I am right- I’m conducting a thought experiment known as the spiritual work of mercy called admonishing the sinner.

          • TROLL ALERT!!! TROLL RIGHT HERE!!! TROLL!!!!
            DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS PERSON!!! THIS PERSON IS NOTHING BUT A TROLL!!!
            TROLL ALERT!!!

          • P0xi

            What I must wonder is why you are playing the part of the one who claims to be a murderous thief.

            Why are you saying this?

            If you found out that there was no god, would you kill people? Seriously?

            What are you even trying to say here? I don’t believe in a god, yet I don’t steal, kill, rape, or do anything bad at all. I try to help people. I saw a homeless person the other day. I bought them water, because it was hot out.

            I don’t get a heaven for it. I just did it because I felt it was right.

            Do you do good things just because you want to go to heaven? Are you a bad person who would murder people if you didn’t think you’d get punished for it?

            Would you never help people unless you got rewarded with immortality?

            I do things that help people because I want to. I don’t need a reward. I just want the world to be happier.

            Would you choose to hurt people if you could? Is that really the sort of person you are?

          • What is there to stop me, if there is no God, no morality, no ethics, and no judgement?

            I’m pointing out your position is irrational in the extreme.

            It might have just felt right to you to bring the homeless person water. It just feels right to somebody else to run over them with a car.

            You have NO WAY to judge the difference in your system. None at all.

            The world is happier with one unified morality than with 7.5 billion competing moralities. You are only moral because you were taught to be moral by your parents- and chances are, if you have any European blood in you, stretching back for several generations that is a Christian mentality.

          • P0xi

            You think it’s right to run people over with cars?

            Why would you think such a thing?

            Are you really that violent of a person? Or are you just assuming that if I don’t join your cult, I’m the bad person, and because you happen to be in a cult, you’re the good person?

            Don’t be delusional.

            You keep talking about murdering me, stealing my things, hurting people.

            What is wrong with you? Are you a psychopath?
            What sort of person says the sorts of things you do?

            God or not, you ought to be locked away in an asylum.

            I’ve already contacted the legal authorities.
            I hope that they can help you with your violent urges to murder people.

          • Under moral relativism, there is no right or wrong. At all. You are the one who claimed it is wrong to forbid people to do anything.

            Violent and non-violent are also moral judgement. Without God, without ethics, without morality, they don’t exist; one man’s violence is another man’s act of mercy, relieving you of a painful life of materialism.

            I’m just adopting the ethics YOU described. You don’t want God or morality restricting behavior- well, you can’t have “right” and “wrong” either.

          • P0xi

            For the record, the gay people I know adopted a female child.

            You’re brainwashed.

            It’s crystal clear to me. You’re being manipulated to become a Nazi.

            Do you hate America? Are you trying to destroy freedom for people because of your religion?

            Jesus spits on you.

            The blind man was the one whom Jesus gave sight to.
            John was the one whom Jesus loved.
            Magdalen was the whore whom Jesus saved.

            And you?

            You’re the one whom Jesus spits upon, because you are filth.

            You’re a deranged, sad, pathetic person who either makes up lies, or believes them.
            There’s no abuse here from gay people.

            Gay people who adopt a female child prove that you’re delusional, and nothing you say is true.

            You need to stop right now, and quit your wicked ways.

            You are a wicked, bad person.
            You are a liar, and a bad person.

            Shame on you.

          • And they are raising her without a mother? Or without a father? This is what I mean by abuse. Of course, it is no worse than a divorced homosexual, which is why divorce is more evil than homosexual.

          • ldwaddell

            Again, There is no evil, everyone is innocent.

          • I hate freedom because freedom can only be maintained with bloodshed and genocide. It appears there is no other way.

            You don’t say if these gay people are men or women, but it doesn’t matter. It had been proven that women raised without a father grow up to be promiscuous victims of the sex trades, and women raised without a mother grow up to be prudes who can’t relate to anybody at all. Either way, gay parents raising a daughter, is child abuse.

          • Nebojsa

            That is because you try very hard to deny human nature in favor of personal whims of some deranged celibate ascetics from the bronze age. Human sexuality has never been exclusively procreative. You can claim that it is, or that it should be, but reality firmly opposes you. Average human has, including masturbation, around 1000 sexual acts per birth of a single child. We simply ARE hypersexual species. We are one of ONLY 3 species of mammals that feels sexual desire when procreation is not possible, so the clam that sex should be solely for procreation is utter religious nonsense derived from either complete denial of wilful ignorance of one’s own nature. Human nature simply DOES NOT CARE about what religion thinks sex should be used for.

          • Under moral relativism, there is no human nature- only emotions. Natural law is a Catholic concept, and yes, at times, human sexuality has been exclusively procreative on pain of death. Perhaps that is the system we need to return to to get you to take it seriously. Oh yeah, God beat us to that one.

            https://medlineplus.gov/sexuallytransmitteddiseases.html

            So far, I see no rationality in anything you have written, and no ability to be reasonable.

          • Nebojsa

            Funny that you mention STD’s. Promiscuous hunter-gatherer tribes, older than your god, DO NOT have them, unless they get in contact with the Western civilization. So where did we get them? Well, vast majority of STD’s are of animal origin. What happened most likely was that the “moral”, “sex for procreation only” folks decided to vent their dogma-induced frustrations on domesticated animals.
            Of course you do not find me reasonable. You are in complete denial just so you could cling to mere whims of some bronze age ascetic nutjobs projected onto your god.

          • Hunter Gatherer tribes, by and large, are not promiscuous. There is a reason why Fear of the Other is so ingrained in the human species. Promiscuous tribes largely died out or were killed.

            The rest of what you say is likely correct in its facts but incorrect in its interpretation. You just proved that you are not a rational being.

          • Nebojsa

            Secluded hunter-gatherer tribes in remote parts of the world, which did not have the “pleasure” of being taught “morals” by various missionaries (or many have tried but failed), are almost universally sexually egalitarian. Just because it would be convenient for your argument that they did not exist does not mean that they don’t, sorry.

          • I don’t know who was stupid enough to tell you that one, but it’s a lie. Most likely made up by one of the “gender studies” people for political purposes.

            I’ll give you a hint: tribal peoples put a premium on procreation, because without procreation, the tribe dies out. They’re also hostile to outsiders, because tribes that were NOT hostile to outsiders, got invaded and killed.

            If you don’t believe me, try to land a boat on North Sentinel Island.

          • Nebojsa

            Right. Anything that does not fit your narrow, delusional world-view must be a “lie” or a part of some “conspiracy”. So convenient. I see your Sentinelese and raise you Kulina, Canela, Aché, Curripaco, Pirahã, Warao and many others, all non-violent hunter-gatherer tribes in which sleeping around is expected. Heck, I even raise you a matriarchal agricultural society – Mosuo.
            By what logic are promiscuity and procreative sex mutually exclusive?

          • It is simple evolution. Gender identity studies has no survival value, nor does moral relativism, which is why neither occurs in subsistence level economies.

          • ldwaddell

            There is no evil, everyone is innocent.

          • Pudentiana

            Have you read The Screwtape Letters, P0xi?

      • Jill Ault Patrick

        The Bible is God inspired.

    • Kimberly K. Broadhead

      Love this!!! Thank you for sharing! Great visual.
      The pic you may see is of myself, and my dearest friend who, almost 13 years ago, turned her back on homosexuality. She divorced that sinful life and gave herself fully to her Savior, Jesus Christ!

    • Laurie Winkler

      Excellent. I’m posting your comment to my wall. ❤️

  • Sandi Luckins

    good column Matthew. May people hear the Lord through you on this.

  • Jerry Dodson

    Wow. So glad you are willing to withstand the wolves. When so-called Christians are pushing you back into sin, this nation has hit rock bottom.

  • Joshua Carpenter

    What a great read.

    You answered a hot question with biblical truth. You did well on this matt. Great job!

  • Shane

    Amen.

    And don’t think for a moment this thorn can’t go away. Everyone wants to believe their own private temptation is related to Paul’s thorn in the flesh, but temptation itself is the thorn, not any specific one, and you are not defined by your temptations.

    As your senses are trained to discern evil, you will more and more be repulsed rather than attracted to this behavior. God does not leave us forever in ridiculous temptations. The temptation is not YOU. YOU are not this urge. And once you learn enough about this urge, it will offend you as it does most everyone else, and it will stop.

    MANY people have not just stopped engaging in homosexuality, but left all or most of the temptation far behind. Don’t listen to the naysayers. Of course a habit of any kind can be difficult to leave behind, but you can and it sure looks like you will.

  • Russ Westbrook

    May God continue to keep you faithful brother. Your courage and faith are inspiring.

  • Kepha Hor

    Excellent.

  • Thank you Matt. You probably don’t remember me, but I interviewed you a couple of times in 2011 when you first became a believer. Things sure have changed in our world and in Christendom since then, haven’t they?

    Your testimony is incredible, and I am so glad you are using your voice to glorify God and point people to His glory!

  • Jody Jorns

    Thank you, Matt, for your boldness in speaking truth…in love. I find myself surrounded with friends, colleagues and family members dealing with homosexuality. Your words, knowing they are coming from someone in the struggle, provide me with great insight and additional strength to speak with love and truth to those around me. You are anointed and blessed.

  • mike

    When asked: “You mention faithfulness and God. Do you think an LGBT relationship can be holy?” Jen Hatmaker says: “I do”.
    As in the book of Revelation, the Church of Thyatira became married to the world and a Jezebel came along to lead God’s people into sexual sin. So too, it’s what this woman Jen is doing by making such a wicked statement above. Her fate as with other Jezebels in the bible will not be pretty if she does not repent. And she is right, the world is watching and Jen’s fate when God brings his judgement as to the Jezebel of the Church of Thyatira will be notable. Marriage was/is God’s invention and He is well able to defend it for his honor and glory.

  • I urge anybody here that is a Christian or is a believer in God to not respond to Regan DuCasse. She only wants to argue, and if we disagree with her at all, we are called bigoted, ignorant, uninformed homophobes. She is a vicious little troll, only interested in her self aggrandizement, a self-righteous martyr to the homosexual cause.

    • Milton Orgeron

      When I mentioned ALL CAPS DAY, I forgot to mention Book-Length Comment Day and Repeated Talking Points Day. ;>)

      • Maybe her caps button is stuck. However it doesn’t change the fact that she says the same thing over and over again, and always emphasizing she empathized with the gay community because she is a black woman and knows prejudice, and if you disagree with her at all you are a bigoted hater. Apparently I am a betrayer of the LGBT community too.

        • Regan DuCasse

          You’ve been repetitious yourself. And after doing you the courtesy of reading your blog, you were even more repetitious with the stereotyping of gay people in particular.
          Okay, and what lesson are you trying to teach me, BJM?
          You shouldn’t be upset at what I learned, if your lesson didn’t go the way you like.

    • Stacy

      I believe she is also misrepresenting her professional career. She’s made repeated claims to be in crime scene photography, in forensics, specifically in the Los Angeles area. I have found no traces of her in either of the major law enforcement jurisdictions in the LA area. People who have been working as crime scene photographers for several decades in the LA area have never heard her name. Also, it should be noted that she claims that crime scene photographers are first responders. Neither the LASD nor the LAPD consider forensics personnel first responders. Someone who actually does the job would know that.

      • Knew she had the potential to be a phony.

        • Regan DuCasse

          I don’t expect a Christian to be a pushover, but Stacy betrayed something I never did.
          And never would.
          And so whatever moral cred you think you have, went out of the window.
          Not much I can do about that.
          I don’t know what makes you think your religious beliefs justifies this bit of behavior, but more than a few times you revealed yourselves as essentially the nasty people you are under your phony and very thin Christian values veneer.
          You really have to so insecure to pull something like Stacy did.
          You couldn’t care less about clarification, so I won’t bother.

          • Please clarify. I truly want to hear your side, but you did make it sound as if you worked for the LAPD. Also, how did Stacy betray? I would like to know. There is too much bitterness here.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Really Bradley? Really?
            Why should I?
            And especially to you? You haven’t believed me, but since you went right along with Stacy, straight for the ridicule, don’t you think it’s late for me to trust your sincerity to care about my side?
            How do you THINK Stacy betrayed?
            Snooping behind my back, then snitching and then denying my background. Any other information shared here, can be used in the same way.
            I already said, I lost that job and it’s been two and a half years, and I can’t go back.
            A very painful thing to occur, and losing a friend I worked with there too.
            If you want me to say another thing about it, you’re going to have to do a better job of building trust about that.
            I’m not having this out here.
            Your site, or something else would be better.

          • Regan DuCasse

            Will write you via email.

      • Regan DuCasse

        So, you’re spying on me?
        Wow…and why did you do that?
        You’d breach a person’s privacy in that way, and you’re proving Christians are so willing to do harm to people who don’t agree with them.
        I’ve broken no laws, I haven’t breached anyone else’s privacy here, nor revealed you on other media.
        I have been honest and at no time, would do anything like that to you, as you as you have to me.
        And now, it looks like any further explanation, or honesty is going to be used to further breach my privacy and misrepresent me.
        What a disgrace you are.

      • Regan DuCasse

        You don’t know what you’re talking about. Mind your own business.

      • Zac

        Wow, you’re super gross. What a good Christian you are. Bet you are Super Saved.

        • “Super gross”? What are you, like thirteen? There is no “Super Saved”. Do you even know what “saved” means?

          • Zac

            Even if I didn’t, I sure wouldn’t ask someone like you to explain it.

          • P0xi

            Bradley, you’re one of the worst people I’ve ever known in my life.
            You are seriously twisted.

            You should go back to being a gay slut. At least you weren’t hurting anyone then.

          • “The fool hath said in his heart, ‘There is no God.’ Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.”
            Psalm 53:1
            On the treatment of fools: Proverbs 26:1-12
            God bless!

          • P0xi

            You are right. Only a fool would keep the truth secret.

            A fool says only in his heart, that there is no god.
            A wise man says it openly.

            There is no god.

          • P0xi

            Seriously though, to just use a bible verse to defend the bible is kinda stupid, isn’t it?

            “The bible is true because the bible said so”.

            Are you insane? You are, ain’t ya?
            You silly little moron. You are seriously twisted and evil inside.

          • P0xi

            You’re a bad person, and you won’t ever understand why.
            You have my pity.

          • “Bradley, you’re one of the worst people I’ve ever known in my life.
            You are seriously twisted.”
            Thanks! Coming from you, that is a real compliment!

          • Soraya Madai Khashoggi

            looks who’s become pushy now? LGBT Activist are more Bigot than the fanatics today

  • rchelle_7

    Amen Matt…this is truly a blessed word. GOD Bless you and thank you so much for your faithfulness and firm stand against the compromising of our Father GOD’s Word and His Truth.

  • lonebear

    I love what you have to say about this. We have to stay true to the Word. Hate the sin and not the sinner, but we can’t condone these things

  • Clive Loseby
  • sandraleesmith46

    Well said, and spot on! And congratulations on you position personally as well. Nowhere does God even remotely indicate that any of the things He condemned as abominations can, or should, be condoned by believers! You will be blessed for standing firmly on God’s Word, regardless how many oppose you!

  • Condemned by people,in line with God
    “I admire you for the strength you exert every day in suppressing this part of yourself,” some kindly say, “but you don’t have to live like this. God wants you to be happy with a person you find desirable. He will still love and bless you if you find a man to spend the rest of your life with.” And then there are other professing Christians who take a not-as-nice approach and run around town telling people (who later tell me) that I am deceiving myself, misrepresenting Jesus, and negatively influencing others with my antiquated beliefs.
- I understand this is part of the gospel package. Following Jesus with this thorn lodged in my side is always going to earn me some sideways looks. 
2nd Corinthians 12:7-10
    7 And least I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
    8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
    9 And he said unto me, “My grace is sufficient for thee: for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
    10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
- How we are instructed to respond to professing Christians who personally indulge in sexual immorality (and a whole slew of other sins) and refuse to repent:
    “Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” – Romans 1:32 (emphasis mine)”
I have always loved the words used in the KJV because, to me, they’re absolute in their placement in the text, thereby making their meaning clear.



Example: same passage as above: 
 ” Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
”Knowing” (a word we all know it’s meaning) already being aware of something. What did they already know? The judgement of God, that’s what they knew! Then so that you and I will also know, we are told what is His judgment. That they which commit such things are worthy of death. Now that we have been given awareness evil of what had been discussed a comma is placed to make us aware that included are people who, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


  • Giauz Ragnarock

    I got in touch with Jesus. He doesn’t think LGBT+ people are inherrently sinful just because they don’t do anything that straight cis people don’t also do and in greater numbers.

    • Rachelthemillenial

      That’s not quite true.
      In the US, 1 in 5 gay men is infected with AIDS.
      For the US population at large, it’s 1 in 99.

      Obviously gays are doing something extremely unhealthy.

      But don’t let scientific data affect you. Keep on doing what you’re doing.

      • Giauz Ragnarock

        “Obviously gays are doing something extremely unhealthy.”

        Jesus looked into that, and it would seem that in the same situations straight people without much in the way of sex ed having unprotected trists in small dating pools that society discourages if not actively punishes for trying to be couples with places in society. That and Jesus is flummoxed by HIV. It mutates everytime Jesus tries to cure it… and Jesus doesn’t recall creating the organism, shivering as he reflects on this mystery…

  • Proud Amelekite

    I could never see the world the way you do. I drift between misotheist and agnostic. If He is there then I hate him and view him as the enemy of humanity and human flourishing. I judge him by the Christians I have dealt with. The fruit he has produced in them is rotten in my experience. I welcome His judgement and hell because I have no wish to spend eternity with an entity I hate.

    That said, I do respect the Side B gay Christians as you lot do stand among the jackals as an example of us LGBT folks so that they can’t raise kids to hate and kill us in your absence. It is a hard road and one you walk alone, surrounded by “family” that would secretly rejoice in your death. They hate you, in their hearts. Make no mistake about that. I didn’t come out till I was much older but stayed in Church till then and I know what they say about us when we aren’t around. I played along with them when I still masqueraded as one of them. Bit my tongue and let their bile boil me through, temper my conscience against them, and harden me against their God for when I would finally turn away from them all. Tread carefully on your faith journey. Never turn your back on these “brothers and sisters”.

    • Hi! Hate is never the answer, as it will just eat you up inside. Never hated God myself, but I surely didn’t like Him either. I had to let all this go. It won’t be easy, and God is not asking you to be something you aren’t. I had to realize this too. He never asked me to be straight – He just asked me to serve Him, in my capacity. One of the problems that gay people have (myself included) is that we need to feel affirmed and loved by everybody. Realistically, this will never happen. There is great wisdom in Matthew 7 when Jesus said “Judge not, that ye be not judged.” This applies to all. There are many who don’t approve of who or what we are. But to judge all believers because of the actions of a few is to do exactly what they are doing. We are better than that. The best way to show love to those who hate us is to forgive them. God is real! And He sent us Jesus Christ to forgive all our sins. He didn’t ask us to be straight, just to love Him.

      • Proud Amelekite

        My feelings on God are conditional. If the Evangelical representation of him is the real one then he is my enemy. As for hatred, I hate all things I view as evil, dishonorable, tyrannical, and antithetical to the welfare of my brethren and general human flourishing. If God is these things then I will hate and oppose him, lead children away from him, and gladly accept the glory of hell over him. It is nothing personal. Just war.

        I try not to hate believers and mostly succeed. That said, I will continue to recognize them as enemies because enemies is what they are. I will rejoice when the culture turns my way and use my talents to hinder and sabotage their attempts to change it in ways I view antithetical to me and my brethren. I don’t need their love – their submission will suffice. Again, tt is nothing personal. Just war.

  • “Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.”
    II Thessalonians 2:14-15

  • P0xi

    “ . . . I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the
    name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an
    idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a
    one.” – 1 Corinthians 5:11

    And I am writing now to tell you that one who shuns his neighbor, one who rejects a friend for a sin, one who casts out a person for being evil, in a world where forgiveness is possible, is the evil one.

    Do not stone the prostitute. Do not stone the gay person. Do not stone the thief. Do not stone the rapist or murderer.

    Let them repent. Let them come clean, and join us for a feast once more.

    Anyone who looks down on another person: I look down on you from a place you have not the height to see.

  • Cheree

    Mr. Matt you are definitely on the right track. Unfortunately, I think christians that condone sin especially a sin GOD says is abominable is Luke warm or carnal. You are right to discontinue fellowship with them to yourself from being tainted by their views. You may have to pray and intercede for them from a far. May God Bless You and continue to strengthen you in your devotion to the Lord!

  • Ernest Zenone

    I thank our Lord for your ministry and honesty, Matt. It’s been a great help to me. I pray many others will be helped through your ministry and faithfulness!

  • Steve Boyer

    Thank you Matt for speaking the truth. Please continue to speak out against those who are trying to lead all of us fighting this battle astray. It’s a hard road as it is but made all the harder by people who have bought the lie of tolerance . KINDeep fighting the good fight Matt!

  • Grace Kim Kwon

    Never affirm what God condemns. Leviticus ch. 18-20. Romans 1. Jude 1.

  • Steven Watts

    It began, when Christians began to turn a blind eye to fornication, adultery and divorce, and then right on down the slippery path..

  • Freedom

    Keep speaking the truth……truth lovers will follow…all others will go the broad way which leads to destruction.

  • Rev. Dr. Terril D. Littrell

    We have sown in the wind and are reaping in the whirlwind!

  • jadegreen

    God bless you and console you. This life is short; eternal glory and happiness is without end. You will be in my and my family’s prayers.

  • David

    I believe that part of the problem with Church is that we fail to understand and teach that desire is not the problem. The problem is how we act in desire. Eve didn’t sin when she gazed upon the fruit and saw that it was pleasing (it was probably beautiful in fact), she didn’t sin when saw that it would be pleasing to eat (it probably did taste great when she did), nor did she sin when she saw that it was a way to gain knowledge (which it was). She sinned when she ate. The problem with any desire is that we run the risk of assuming that there’s nothing wrong with acting on the desire and thus we give into it. We haven’t learned to simply embrace desire as it is, to welcome it and savor it and examine it. Thus we never discover what we’re truly desiring in the deepest parts of our hearts and thus never come to the point wherein utter despair of longing we share that desire with God for him to step into, part take of and fulfill.

    We minimize the power of desire to reveal what our hearts are longing for and then sin either by lying about it “oh I didn’t really want that job” or by indulging it. All the while failing to connect with our heart.

  • The mantra of the LGBT community is that ‘we are born this way’. This is fatalistic, that we don’t have a choice. They are dogmatic and tyranical in their beliefs, holding so many people in their chains. Why do you think so many of us have drug and alcohol problems? Why do you think mental illness and suicide is so pervasive? THERE IS FREEDOM IN CHRIST! We don’t have to succomb to the LGBT community! There is no fate, but what we make! We can be whoever we want to be!

  • FtzWW

    Thanks for posting this, Matt. Homosexual behavior is entirely optional. And to whom or to what we are attracted is largely a function of how we were brought up and what we feed our mind and what we assent to.

  • Yvonne Interval Frith

    Here is a message from my TN pastor at Grace Pointe Church. He spoke at the Southern Baptist Convention

    “Just spent a very stealth & quiet 5 minutes with a Southern Baptist pastor’s wife. Her husband pastors a large church a few hundred miles from Nashville. Their son is gay, now lives in our beloved City of Music and, lately, has been visiting GRACEPOINTE. She wept as she explained that of their four children, he was the most beautiful of spirit, the kindest, the most loving (she was obviously pained by the reality that she simply could not capture his beauty with her hurried and pained words) and yet, and yet, they destroyed him with their faith. Destroyed him.

    I will never forget and forever will be inspired by her request: “Love him for us. Love him the way he deserves. Love him the way we should have. Tell him what I wanted to and couldn’t.” My heart broke. I couldn’t tell for whom it broke more – mom or son. I told her there was still time and opportunity for her to do this. She looked dubiously around the foyer of the hotel, teeming with her husband’s peers, and said with the saddest of eyes, “Please love him.” And she walked away. I have scarcely met a sadder human. My chest physically hurt.

    Sigh. Tears.

    If there is a heaven, it will have to be a place where mothers and fathers fall on their gay children’s shoulders and say, “I am sorry, I am sorry, I am sorry.” And it will be enough. I hope it will be enough. Please sweetest Christ, make it enough.

    I know who I will be looking for after church this Sunday”.

  • UtahRed

    Thank you for pointing out the fact that gay sin is an abomination to God just like drunkenness, adultery, etc. Anyone who practices homosexual sin is deceived and will not enter the kingdom of God (Romans 1). They can not be true Christians and are only fooling themselves. I pray for my homosexual friends and family members to get set free from this sin as it is a bondage. And the bible points out that people can be set free (though very difficult). You have to really want to be free and submit yourself to Christ. No one is born gay. This is a lie. The thoughts and feelings are from Satan. The bible is just as relevant today as it was when it was written (human nature hasn’t changed). Homosexuality was around 5000 years and ago and it’s still around today except now it’s more acceptable because our country has turned its back on God.

  • Little Rose

    Brilliant! Thank you.

  • Michael Rea Dobbs

    Thank you so much for your honest, truthful, compassionate, and vulnerable testimony!! You encourage me greatly !! God Bless you!!!

  • Shani Lian Andreakis

    Stay strong.

  • Jonathan Vlietstra

    Ahh religion. Where people can destroy the lives of others and call it good.

  • Thank you for this. It is good to hear from the struggling. I was once one of those non-affirming allies, until 2004 when I was branded a bigot for supporting civil unions but not same sex marriage. This hardened my heart against it all. I now count heterosexual fornicators, adulterers, abortionists, rapists, and contraceptors all in the same boat as active homosexuals, rowing away from the barque of Peter.

  • DrPhilOfCrap

    “…if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed… ” Darn right! Stop associating with and supporting Trump!

  • Lianne Simon

    Whatever my views on homosexuality, what always seems to be lacking in these discussions is humility. Pride is certainly more common in the Church than homosexuality, and an abomination.

  • Great article. You are a brave man, and I agree with your position.

  • David Connors

    David Connors So, let’s accept, just for a moment, that the Bible gives clear indication that homosexuality is a sin, as this article maintains. Would it not follow that we also have to accept that the Bible gives clear indication of how we are to regard adultery? So I ask you this, Christians: Been to any good adulterer stonings lately? If you haven’t, then perhaps you are not the good Christians you think you are. A Christian once told me that either the Bible has to be accepted in its entirety or not at all. So, if you are a believer, you’ve got some rocks to gather.

  • Ben Miller-Hepburn

    Does this apply to other areas as well? The biggest problem I have with with the biblical case against homosexuality is the inconsistency with which it interprets the bible. So in this case, do you also arrive at the conclusion “that I cannot extend the hand of fellowship to a gay-affirming person—nor can I affirm his or her salvation” for people with different beliefs than you on drinking, baptism, divorce, speaking in tongues, etc?

  • Manheart

    Matt, why are you blocking my comment from Sunday? There is such hateful stuff on here you let through; what did you find offensive to block about me?

  • Steve Dunn

    Here is my pondering. It relates to the question of whether people are born homosexual or not. I would say that sexual immorality in one form or another has been the devils most successful temptation. We live in a world where we are so wrapped up in sex that I think maybe we feel like we have to be one or the other. If we accept for a moment that God is real, the devil is real, and the Bible is God’s word. Then God says in scripture that his greatest desire is that we remain single and be able to serve him without the responsibilities of marriage and children. He also says it is acceptable to be married if you have a strong desire for that. I think as a society possibly a lot of people just don’t see remaining single and having a life that doesn’t involve a sexual relationship is normal. I wonder how many people turn to a homosexual lifestyle because they don’t have that desire for the opposite sex or have been hurt by the opposite sex. I have known people who have been under lots of family pressure to “get married” and I am sure peer pressure can be awful “why don’t you ever date?” It seems we have lost the ability also to have truly great friendships as well there have been many men who have had other male friends they lived with for years or a lifetime without there being anything sexual about it. Many women as well. Lastly I am not trying to say that there are not lots of people out there that have strong sexual desires for the same sex but Sexual immorality includes having sex outside of marriage as well which so many struggle with, or pornography which has mired countless millions. Even if our temptation isn’t sexual in nature we all have something the devil finds to dig away at us none of us are any different there is something we must battle. I only write this as a conversation started not as some truth of STEVE. Just some thoughts I have had in trying to understand life in the world we live in.

  • Carolee Blades Zickefoose

    Beautifully written.

  • Jim Katsoudas

    Thank Matt Moore for staying true to Jesus loving him honoring him despite the fallen culture in which we live. You are a gifted writer and gifted young man because despite the luring call of the culture you stay true to Jesus the liver of your soul.

  • EIFLER

    GOD CREATED MAN AND WOMAN AND THEY INVENTED SIN!